It's been suggested I make a new thread on this, so here goes. The damage-based Secrets are a Dragon skillset, in that they're Dragon Discipline skills. We've already seen some utility added to all Monks by having Secret of Ice turned to a snare + slow with a chance at a stun. Considering Dragons have no unique utility, how about adding the following?

- Secret of Force (mental): deals moderate damage, somewhere between fire and ice, and debuffs mobs' melee and ranged accuracy - pummeling your foes with mental damage, you numb their minds.
- Secret of Lightning (arcane): deals high damage, like fire, but has a chance to proc direct damage instead of a DoT. This wouldn't be utility as such, but it would allow Dragons the choice between DoTs on single targets (with Fire) or DD procs on mobs that might still have to be stunned, mezzed or otherwise removed from the encounter.
- Secret of Will (spiritual): deals moderate damage, like ice, but slows spellcasting and has a chance to silence for 4 secs - this could be the Secret of Ice against spellcasters.
 
These wouldn't be overpowering, as we'd still need Jin to switch over between them and the effects are short-lived. Hence, you wouldn't be switching over between them to stack up effects. And it would be easier to do than giving us a DPS balance tweak for now.

Thoughts, my fellow Dragons?

Yeah, agree on the Transcendence vs Will. I personally think Transcendence would do better with a casting debuff than extra DPS. If extra DPS, what's the use for Secret of Fire other than the fact it has fire instead of spiritual damage (thus making it limited to only raids)? If it has a casting debuff, we might be able to finally solo something - casters, who by definition have less HP than tanking or melee dps mobs.

I would love for this to happen.  Pulling would be much easier and faster if secret of ice would snare when i throw shurikens.

As for the dragon only secrets, they sound like they'd be just what the doctor ordered.  I hope you guys get em

I thought they did proc with range... i've seen Secrets of Ice on mobs I pull with the Summoned Wardship Shurikens... maybe it was a bug, i only recall this a time or two.

Agreed. Maybe change the names for Will & Force around... Force seems to go better with physical than Will does, no?

well if it added melee dmg (enough to be worth while) it would be used when mobs are immune to magic

I would remove the spiritual damage from transcendance and just have it as a flat +10% damage option for when mobs are very resistant to spell damage.

For dragons, to take the place of the now missing Spiritual damage secret, a secret i think many here will enjoy:

Secret of Scarring: Mild spiritual based damage, around half of fire, that steals life with each strike, and has a 10% chance to proc a "soul sip" effect that returns health equal to 75% of the attack that triggered it.

This would be a perfect aid for dragon monks who have the hardest issue soloing currently, and it would be ideal for raiding if aoes are constant, can switch to this if needed.

Well, add a Bard to the group and you would be invincible. Then again, I haven't seen BMGs use their Blood Feast at all past 40 because it's such an aggro magnet. Likewise, I wouldn't use that ability unless I was solo - I don't fancy going FD every 2 secs. So I guess it pans out and wouldn't be too overpowering - survival in exchange for certain aggro.