Couple of notes:

1.  Harmonious has the worst penalty imo for an offensive stance.  40% endurance cost is huge especially with the revamp to endurance regen every 6 sec.  Can never use Aum Kor which provides a great advantage for dps.  I would much rather have a mitigation penalty than an endurance penalty. 

2.  I don't agree with AE being useless.  AE is useful for killing down spawned adds in some of the Raid encounters.  I do think dragon AE needs to be much improved.  Their AE benefits suck right now.

3.  I think drunken is too high on the dps ladder for monks,  They should be 3rd in the dps ladder as initially intended.

4.  In order for Harmonious to maintain their high dps they have to give up using their debuffs as they are low damage attacks.  In order for me to maintain my debuffs on a mob, I have to constantly keep using them in a raid encounter.  So in order to do high dps we give up our debuffs.  Of course this gives us options and provides utility. 

I would agree that dragon should have slightly more dps than a harmonious, but there real initial intent was to deal massive AE damage.  They definitely fall short on that.  I am not sure why dragon can't out dps a harmonious monk at this point given their offensive stance.  I do feel that drunken has too much dps in comparison.  They are supposed to have the least dps out of all monks.  However they were given a +22% damage offensive stance and an extra thousand fists finisher.  Does not make sense for a defensive monk.

AE attacks are worthless for Dragon, Period

Why would the most fragile melee class in the game want to draw aggro to themselves from multiple directions?

If i'm remembering right, harmonious isn't supposed to be a high dps class.  From various monks i've spoken with, harmonious seems to be the only one that's currently doing what it's supposed to.  Unless you count the currently bugged rescues keeping Drunken in the running.  Doesn't seem right that to work as intended, they have to be bugged.  Dragon meanwhile is still a flop.  Trying hard to hang in there and not switch to harmonious as most monks have... so far now, i'll just continue to feign death and wait for things to be set right.  Course, if i were patient... i'd not be playing a monk ;p

The changes to force-target taunts came about because, 3 or 4 tanks in APW on test were rescuing each other continuously and so sorcs could spam CV continuously without any fear of pulling aggro.

Now, no drunken monk was gonna be Main-Tanking in APW anyway, am i right?

So why did the force target changes affect drunken monks too, it makes no sense.
It seems like a heat-of-the-moment nerf without any thought for monks. A problem they won't acknowledge, because perhaps they can't fix it.
Maybe they will fix it, but as we all know monk has never been high on their priority list.
Seems like the whole "purpose" of drunken monk is void now.

I do understand what needed to be done for APW, however, with the revamp of th drunken monk (as well as all monk) our ability to hold agro has been deminished quite a bit. What with foolhardy swagger being broken (or innefective?) our tools are just not enough to grab agro quickly in an offtanking situation.

I'd also like to point out that prior to the monk revamp. Foolhearty swagger was a force-taunt with 5 attack duration (I beleive) and while I'm sure that this change is a good thing, it has also left us without a long duration force-taunt.

In addition to the suggestions outlined above. I would also recomend that Jeering kick have it's number of forced attacks upped. 2 attacks is roughly roughly 4 seconds (max)... given we aren't really the best tanks, I don't think there is much chance of us exploiting a larger number on this. I would recomend either an increasing number as we level (up to 4) or a flat 4 attacks. This would be enough to give a tank a bit of time to grab agro back, or allow us to build agro enough to help out a squishy.

As someone who played Dragon monk to 50, and then raided with dragon monk before switching to drunken can I say one thing?

Dragon monk is not THAT bad.  You all blow it way out of proportion, let's see some parser evidence to back up some of your claims of horrid dps.   And don't give me 4x thousands fists becauseyou are talking about 60k+ avg every minute and 45 sec (assuming you have a bard in your group), and ~25k every other 45 seconds or so.   Yes drunken get that, but dragon gets a pretty decent dot. a proc and much more flexibility with the weakness system.   I think without parsers everyone gets too caught up in a few big numbers, and forget about the little ones that add up during a long boss fight which is really how monks play in a lot of other MMO's.  To really max out dragon's damage you have to play it much differently, make sure your dot is always up, obviously still spam explodes the heart, and thousand fist chains as much as possible, but you also need to to make the most of our weaknesses much more than drunken because you aren't constantly firing off chains throughout the whole fight.  The end result is much closer damage wise than you would think, I did not switch from dragon due to the poor DPS and would go back if I wasn't needed for corpse dragging (frankly put, the perfect dodge abilities harm and drunken get are not needed at all for pulling they are just easy buttons).

Dragon does not need a full revamp, AoE IS useful on MANY fights (not to mention that behind exploding heart line, thousand fists, and dragon's own finisher line it is the most powerful finisher vs. one target), and with raid endurance the way it is dragon is by far the best AE'er of the three due to their style specific cone.

I also disagree that it should be as simple as highest dps, middle, lower.  I don't remember that ever being the case, even in beta and at launch all the damages could be pretty close, it is just about different ways to reach those numbers.  All classes should have different things to offer like has been said, harmonious has their utility/debuffs, an awesome dot and what not, drunken has spike damage (for aggro)y, and dragon has AoE, a proc, and the best endurance attack (as it says high endurance cost, high damage Six Dragon Strike along with it's enraged exploit blow any other styles endurance attack out of the water).

I think they should as much as possible try to work within the current parameters of the different styles, when you change things too much that is when you end up creating more imbalances and just end up hurting the entire class.

I like the idea of possibly adding INT or something that further boosts secrets to dragon monks,fix drunken's hate transfer onto defensive target, but I really think very little needs to be done as far as class balancing even if i am in the minority with that opinion.

If none of you are willing to put up numbers, next time my guilds farms entry wing or something I'll try to do some parses with dragon vs. other styles (although Quinn sounded like he was doing this already).

I'm not saying dragon doesn't need some help, but I'm worried they are going to either go overboard and end up getting the whole monk class nerfed, or scaling back the other two styles enough that you have to choose between 0 utility or poor dps, and to be honest if that is the choice I'm parking myself in group 4 and going to alternative strategies for pulling etc.

Im extremly confused about what your intentions are here... First of all you claim to die at 50% on a mob, not get rezzed untill 40%, obtained no buffs after having been rezzed and still came out 3rd on a parse. Then you follow this up with complaints about why your class needs to do better damage?

I am going to let you in on a little secret. Monk's endurance abilities such asy our Feet of the Fire Dragon are primarily there for recovering your jin and opening our crit chains. Id also like to point out that this ability is a DoT... saying it needs to be upgraded because it ticks for less than auto attack is like saying our secrets needs to be increased because they do less than auto attack. Its free damage you click the button once and get 1.2k to 2k ticks every 4 seconds from 1 click.

Id also like to point out that Dragon monks are by no means Usless pullers. You may be a usless puller, but dont categorize the entire class type because your feel you lack the ability or skill to pull without an invuln...  As it currently stands the only thing drunken get that make us differant than a dragon monk is an extra double damage ability and invlun. Saying you want dragons to also have an invlun and also be higher dps than drunken would make drunken monks obsolete.

I do not disagree that dragon monks need less AE's but at the same time most of your ideas for changes are far to focused on just beefing up dragon and making other's usless or atleast less usful..

He didn't "twist" words any more than most people posting here, but wanted to clarify what he felt were exaggerations leading to ideas that will likley "overfix" dragon monks effectively trading the current imbalance with a new imbalance.

I agree there is a fair amount of bitter dragons that want balance "plus payback" for their comparative suffering.  I have yet to see anyone say "dragons are great as they are and need no adjustements at all" yet if someone posts anything short of a zealous rant going over the top on how much fixing dragon needs they seem to often be criticized as out of touch or biased towards another style etc.

That said I felt the comparison between dragon and drunk was a pretty large over simplification.  I would still rather see dragon get an AOE stun on 5min cooldown instead of invuln for purposes of maintaining diversity among styles, but I also feel I'm probably more concerned about keeping a level of uniqueness to the different styles than most people?

Realistically maintaining 1 SOLID (and more efficient than the core monk) AOE attack plus finisher extension and putting the rest of the abilities towards an elemental dragon master theme to provide alternate damage route (boosting secret damage, int and debuffing mobs to take more damage from elemental sources) would be my chose preference.

That and all styles could use a little fine tuning and definitely some stance adjustment...but there's already a thread going on that.

http://www.vanguardmonks.com/option,com_smf/Itemid,27/topic,1026.0/

Im curious other than damage and the ability to invuln what do drunken have that make them unique? in a raid situation why would a monk ever use his force taunt? I honestly cant think of a situation where it would be more benefitial for a monk to force a mob over a tank.

Im also going to say this again. Attacks like Boundless Fist, Cresent Kick, Staggering Punch ( drunken ), Feet of the fire dragon ( dragon ) are not there to be massive damage producers. Their primary purpose is to increase our jin and trigger our finishers... this goes for all monks... also When I said free damage what i meant was not the cost of endurance but rather the fact you only have to click it once every 16 seconds... While it ticks you can throw in other attacks or finishers. I as a drunken monk would gladly trade staggering punch for it. The less I have to click the less auto attack dps I lose due to the delay between abilities hitting and auto attack starting up again.

Correct me if I am wrong but what you are really wanting is all monk types to be completly equal in dps, utility, and pulling ability... The problem i see with that is this defeats the point of having 3 types of monks. Do I disagree that dragon monks could use a small boost in dps? and the answer is no i do not disagree HOWEVER the entire purpose of my post was the point out that alot of your supposed 'fixes' would only continue the unbalanced cycle.