Navigation:
Home
Forum
Monk Discussion
Monk General
Upcomming Raid-based Changes
User Menu
Welcome Guest.
Username:
Password:
Remember me
Lost Password?
No account yet?
Register
Main Menu
Home
News
Forum
Search
Class Info
FAQ
Abilities
Quests
Guides
Off-Site Links
Vanguard Official Site
Vanguard Forums
Vanguard Bards
Vanguard Bloodmages
Vanguard Shaman
Vanguard Radio
Vanguard Servers
Polls
What race will you be?
Kojani Human
Half Elf
Orc
Goblin
Raki
Qaliathari Human
Dark Elf
Mordebi
What's your favorite martial style?
Dragon Style
Harmonious Body Style
Drunken Style
Spotlight
Latest News
Our Sponsors
Popular Articles
Monk Abilities
Monk Class FAQ
Under Construction
Vanguard Monks DPS Parser
Sony Online Entertainment Acquires Sigil Games Online
Recent Forum Posts
Reactionautocounter?
(1) by
Monk01
Am I doing something seriously wrong or?
(4) by
Tangaroo Tulkas
APW PULL STRAT'S
(3) by
siago
New Monk Ability List
(68) by
Grack
Changes to Divine Tyhoon?
(1) by
Gjorrin
VanguardMonks News
Sony Online Entertainment Acquires Sigil Games Online
New Mounts Available Today
INC Monk Love!
Vanguard Monks DPS Parser
Double XP Weekend - March 10th-12th
Official Vanguard News
An error occured!
Error Message: MagpieRSS: Failed to parse RSS file. (mismatched tag at line 23, column 2)
User Info
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
December 01, 2008, 09:06:41 PM
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Search:
Advanced search
News Box
Welcome to Vanguard Monks!
Key Stats
9260
Posts in
1001
Topics by
4097
Members
Latest Member:
PeftDannymemn
Vanguard Monks
|
Monk Discussion
|
Monk General
|
Upcomming Raid-based Changes
« previous
next »
Pages:
[
1
]
2
Author
Topic: Upcomming Raid-based Changes (Read 1713 times)
Matsu
Desciple
Karma: +2/-0
Posts: 40
Upcomming Raid-based Changes
«
on:
December 06, 2007, 04:32:56 AM »
As posted December 5th, 2007 there are some upcomming changes to certain class abilities, some of which affect monks quite a bit (Drunken Monks in perticular)
Just posting here FYI and so perhaps we can help figure out solutions to potential problems, or at least to make people aware of what is going on if you don't check the boards.
Abilities concerning monks are in
red
Quote
Morning all,
This is a post to inform you all that in an effort to insure our raiding encounters are challenging and interesting we have had to make some adjustments to the way some ability types work. In every case we tried to make sure that the group environment was not affected much as these changes are directly linked to stuff we have seen and had reported to us while testing both overland and APW raids.
The changes are as follows:
Incoming Critical Chance
The following class abilities that modify the chance for everyone to critically hit an NPC will now apply a buff to the mob. This buff is a temporary invulnerability that will cause any other spell of the same type cast while it is active to receive the affects of diminishing returns. For example the Rakurr shaman ability called Hamstring has a 2 minute refresh which means for 2 minutes from the time it is applied to the NPC any other hamstring cast will be diminished in effectiveness to 0. This affects abilities that modify incoming critical chance by 100%. This buff is only being added for abilities that do not already have an indicator for the duration of the immunity like cleave whose immunity duration is as long as the effect remains on the NPC.
This change affects the following class abilities:
Cleave
Hamstring
Blindside
Imperil
Any non class ability or class ability that does not increase incoming crit chance by 100% will have a max number of hits duration added to it if there is not one already.
This change affects the following abilities:
Item effects:
Mark of the Assassin
Justice
Voice of Justice
Soulsting
Thundering Impact
Lightning Strike
Thunderclap
Class Ability:
Lightning Kisses the Ground
Force Target Abilities
All force target abilities will now apply a force target immunity buff to NPCs that are affected by the ability. This will prevent the NPC from being forced to switch targets for this duration. If an ability has other effects on it they will be executed still.
This change affects the following class abilities:
Warrior:
Protect
Overwhelm
Shout of Defiance
Mountainous Barrier
Coercion
Psioniscist:
Lure
Paladin:
Shining Beacon
Entwine
Contrition
Protector's Fury
Monk:
Foolhardy Swagger
Trap Hands
Jeering Kick
Dread Knight:
Scourge
Nexus of Hatred
Seething Hatred
Inflame
Cleric:
Protection
Spiritual Guardian I
Shaman:
Intimidate (Pet)
Growl (Pet) (Edit: Forgot to put this on the list)
Modular Defense Abilities
All modular defense abilities have been given a 30 second refresh timer and had their penalties removed (like reducing hate).
This change affects the following class abilities:
Adamant Foeman
Devout Foeman
Bleak Foeman
Parry
Deter
Swaying Step
Fence
Dodge
***Update ***
Cleric Invulnerability Abilities
Divine Barrier and Divine Aura are being adjusted to resolve an exploit associated with these two abilities.
Here are the details:
Divine Barrier now lasts 10 seconds, down from 18. Its refresh has been lowered to compensate. It is now 8 minutes, down from 10
Divine Aura (preservation affinity) will now root the caster in place for the duration of the invulnerability. This effects can still be cancelled at any time.
These changes are being made based on testing and feedback. It is our obligation to support the ongoing health of Vanguard as it matures and as such we will continue to make adjustments where we see problems. If you have any questions regarding this subject please ask. I will be watching the thread off and on all day trying to answer what questions I can.
Original Post can be found here:
http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?&topic_id=23392
Logged
Fujitsu
Sensei
Karma: +23/-20
Posts: 847
Re: Upcomming Raid-based Changes
«
Reply #1 on:
December 06, 2007, 06:40:04 AM »
Yeah thing is as a dragon i sit at 7-8% , mit at 50, so when i solo 3 dots i almost always use a martial sword and swaying step non stop.
Not sure what trap hands is, might be a skill on test only for drunken although im not to interested in changing paths to see atm.
QTM is already talking to taliksar about how this will effect drunken monks, and we might get an exclusions or the abilities changed so they retain usefulness.
Logged
Sergius
Recruit
Karma: +1/-0
Posts: 14
Re: Upcomming Raid-based Changes
«
Reply #2 on:
December 06, 2007, 07:20:54 AM »
As a drunken style monk, the changes to our taunts and evasion are dramatic. I will try to remain calm until we have more info from QTM, but this pretty much breaks my monk.
Logged
Deshiro Mifune
Master
Karma: +2/-0
Posts: 68
Re: Upcomming Raid-based Changes
«
Reply #3 on:
December 06, 2007, 07:59:54 AM »
Jea give us more damage and take away last protect we have. 30 sec on Swaying step rocks.....
Beat and FD - all what monk is at the end.....
Logged
.oO Deshiro Mifune the Hurricane Oo.
Annexion - Halgar Server
"You don't just go around punching people. You have to say something cool first." Joe Hallenbeck-The Last Boy Scout
Quinn the Mighty
Monk Lead
Kyoshi
Sensei
Karma: +50/-38
Posts: 443
Re: Upcomming Raid-based Changes
«
Reply #4 on:
December 06, 2007, 09:30:42 AM »
The 2 big issues here
-
30 sec reuse on swaying step
: I would use this a lot when I off tank / solo. I wasn't asked for input on this and it was going to happen regardless. The loss of the ability to utilize our dodge will now place more importance on RitW, Iron Skin, and your defensive stances. I would have been happier if they just increased it to 30 so that you could only fire off a couple in rapid succession. It would be there for the "o nos I r going to die" moments and not be burdened by the reuse.
-
Forced aggro abilites
: The Drunken Style utilzes 2 abilities to keep them the center of attention. Having 2 is now redundant as targets are immune to thier effects for 30 seconds after being used. Essentially it has been reduced to a rescue on a long ass timer that is situational.
I had a conversation with Talisker explaining the drunken position. I was able to convince him to modify our AE force aggro ability into an targetable AE aggro abiltiy. I still need to get the specifics but the % of hate transferred *EDIT 10%, 12%, 14%* will rise with each higher of the ability. *EDIT The ability heaps on a certain percentage of the current hate your defensive target already has against all mobs within 10M of your Def target.* I think this will allow drunken monks to control / manupulate hate generated where we would offer a degreee of utility to a group while still make it a decent tanking tool.
I would appreciate any feedback y'all have on this.
~QTM
«
Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 12:14:54 PM by Quinn the Mighty
»
Logged
Quinn the Mighty
Monk Lead
Kyoshi
Sensei
Karma: +50/-38
Posts: 443
Re: Upcomming Raid-based Changes
«
Reply #5 on:
December 06, 2007, 09:39:16 AM »
Trap hands??? I havent seen that since beta 3. It could have been modified into a dropped ability though.
~QTM
Logged
Fujitsu
Sensei
Karma: +23/-20
Posts: 847
Re: Upcomming Raid-based Changes
«
Reply #6 on:
December 06, 2007, 12:07:24 PM »
"an targetable AE aggro transfer abiltiy"
Can you explain what you mean?
We pick a defensive target to transfer hate to, use the skill (is it a passive buff we can leave on say the main tank) or an active skill where each time we press it it generates large ammounts of hate to all mobs in ae towards the defensive target?
Logged
Draxs
Grandmaster
Karma: +9/-5
Posts: 132
Re: Upcomming Raid-based Changes
«
Reply #7 on:
December 06, 2007, 12:23:49 PM »
I just want to shed some light on why they are doing this incase you didn't already know.
That way if you are going to be suggesting changes you will understand what they are trying to remedy.
Appearently a guild or guilds were completely gimping encounters by just having everyone who had any form of these force taunts to spam them non-stop in conjunction with their dodge/parry/evade/block abilities.
This would cause the mob to just ping-pong all over the place and only get 1 attack per target (which would be evaded or heavily mitigated). As lame as this sounds believe it or not guild(s) actually did this in order to take down boss mobs.
So these are changes are a very solid implimentation which if they work correctly will eliminate this kind of.. I don't know what to call it other than gimping.
Logged
Draxs
50 Dragon Monk
Brotherhood of the Spider
Xeth
Quinn the Mighty
Monk Lead
Kyoshi
Sensei
Karma: +50/-38
Posts: 443
Re: Upcomming Raid-based Changes
«
Reply #8 on:
December 06, 2007, 12:25:18 PM »
Quote
We pick a defensive target to transfer hate to, use the skill (is it a passive buff we can leave on say the main tank) or an active skill where each time we press it it generates large ammounts of hate to all mobs in ae towards the defensive target?
Pretty close
Basicly it's a targetable aggro buff It will add, 10,12, 14 percent more hate tword D target to all mobs within 10m of the D Target. (I dont think it will actually come up on the buff bar though it will be on test soon enough though to find out.)
The upside: You now have an effective tool to manage aggro every 30 seconds as you can heap additional hate to your D target. This will be usefull while tanking or in group / raid situations where you want to pile as much hate on a particular player as possible.
Downside: It doesn't force aggro anymore and if a mob has 0 hate toward someone 10% of 0 is still 0. You cant passively control that anymore.
I hate the fact that Jeering Kick is going to take a hit but the gains of Foolhardy Swagger are rather nice. (in theory)
~QTM
«
Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 12:38:25 PM by Quinn the Mighty
»
Logged
Sung_Entune
Recruit
Karma: +0/-3
Posts: 23
Re: Upcomming Raid-based Changes
«
Reply #9 on:
December 06, 2007, 01:11:05 PM »
Quote from: Draxs on December 06, 2007, 12:23:49 PM
I just want to shed some light on why they are doing this incase you didn't already know.
That way if you are going to be suggesting changes you will understand what they are trying to remedy.
Appearently a guild or guilds were completely gimping encounters by just having everyone who had any form of these force taunts to spam them non-stop in conjunction with their dodge/parry/evade/block abilities.
This would cause the mob to just ping-pong all over the place and only get 1 attack per target (which would be evaded or heavily mitigated). As lame as this sounds believe it or not guild(s) actually did this in order to take down boss mobs.
So these are changes are a very solid implimentation which if they work correctly will eliminate this kind of.. I don't know what to call it other than gimping.
It also completely negated the concept of agro control allowing DPS to pretty much have their way without fear of agro. It had to be done, but the issue now is that some classes where defacto top in this field and now have been nerfed as wwell as the fact that the lag in APW makes it very difficult to re-obtain agro should the tank die.
Logged
Sung Entune -
Bard Class Lead
-
Blades of Wrath
Fujitsu
Sensei
Karma: +23/-20
Posts: 847
Re: Upcomming Raid-based Changes
«
Reply #10 on:
December 06, 2007, 01:57:34 PM »
Any chance we can get the damage uped on jeering kick since it is now 30 second reuse?
Logged
Jaako
Recruit
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 6
Re: Upcomming Raid-based Changes
«
Reply #11 on:
December 06, 2007, 02:22:16 PM »
Quote from: Quinn the Mighty on December 06, 2007, 09:39:16 AM
Trap hands??? I havent seen that since beta 3. It could have been modified into a dropped ability though.
~QTM
So what did it do back then ?
On a side note, it's kinda stupid to remove an ability and then give it back as a dropped ability.
Logged
Sergius
Recruit
Karma: +1/-0
Posts: 14
Re: Upcomming Raid-based Changes
«
Reply #12 on:
December 06, 2007, 03:56:55 PM »
So if your defensive target has 10,000 hate accumulated on target A, and 5,000 on target B then this would give them a 1 time boost of 1400 and 700 hate respectively?
Logged
Sergius
Recruit
Karma: +1/-0
Posts: 14
Re: Upcomming Raid-based Changes
«
Reply #13 on:
December 06, 2007, 04:28:49 PM »
I know that drunken monks make up a very small portion of the games player base, and as such a nerf that completely destroys us as off-tanks/avoidance-tanks can be justified for the good of the game. However, I have to say that for us that play this class defensively this hurts a lot. My role in guild/groups will be impacted greatly and my ability to solo will be all but destroyed.
I will no longer be able to effectively take pressure off my healers by off-tanking with swaying step.
I will not longer be able to rescue my group by popping an immunity and then Foolhardy Swagger.
I will no longer be able to reposition a mob using jeering kick.
I will no longer be able to hold agro off of a sorc.
I am going from
the most effective tank on single mobs
( more than one mob and I am toast) to utter crap as a tank.
In other words, the things that I did that made me feel heroic have been stripped and I am now a basic DPS class will nearly no utility.
Honestly right now I went from elation at the upcoming release of APW to dreading it.
Logged
Sergius
Recruit
Karma: +1/-0
Posts: 14
Re: Upcomming Raid-based Changes
«
Reply #14 on:
December 06, 2007, 07:06:46 PM »
Quote from: Fujitsu on December 06, 2007, 01:57:34 PM
Any chance we can get the damage uped on jeering kick since it is now 30 second reuse?
I would prefer to get a sizable +hate on this. And perhaps up the 10% refresh timer reduction on our hate stance so we can use RitW more frequently.
Logged
Pages:
[
1
]
2
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Vanguard Monks
-----------------------------
=> Introductions
=> News
=> Website Q&A
-----------------------------
Monk Discussion
-----------------------------
=> Monk General
=> Monk Tactics & Techniques
=> Monk Gear & Equipment
=> Monk Quests
-----------------------------
Disciple Discussion
-----------------------------
=> Disciple General
=> Disciple Tactics & Techniques
=> Disciple Gear & Equipment
=> Disciple Quests
-----------------------------
General Topics
-----------------------------
=> Vanguard General
=> Vanguard Official Patch Notes
=> Non-Monk Class Discussion
=> Player vs Player
=> Off-Topic