We are the pullers. As yes, it is pretty much mondatory to have atleast 1 monk if not 2.

For trash your pull team will prolly be 1 or 2 monks and a bard or 2. when it comes time for the big pull its usually the monk who get to be the speedbump as no other class can abort the pull if it goes to crap.

Lull only gets you so far......

~QTM

Meh, got logged out.

So again in short:

Other pullers can just die on a bad pull without wiping the raid, eh ?

2) I don't really get what you mean. Did you mean, that a corpse run is only possible with FD as the mobs there see through stealth ?

3) Good point.

4) Can't believe they would screw up rogues that much, by taking away the possibilty to use stealth or get behind the mob. They would cry, and they would have a good reason. I wouldn't mind if it was the case though

5) Other classes can replace our DPS. Even if it ain't that bad anymore.

Do Rogues have some badass utilty ? I saw an "efficient" raidsetup with 2 Rogues, one for pushing aggro and one in melee group, but in the melee group there was a point "Monk / Ranger". So we were considered optional and replaceable by the only other class he didn't mention. Could have also wrote: "Any melee".
Maybe he got no clue, maybe I don't. Clear it up for me.

necro's can fd pull so can disc and there another class that gets fd do they not?
 u mention "will raid leaders let monks pull?

umm i dont think vanguard gonna have a pre raid school lesson in raiding for guild leaders only, its gonna be a learn as u go type deal.

i think bottom line is how u play ur class and how many peeps u have in a raid party that can play there class

im not sweating it anymore i love my monk for what it does and i will see what the eviroment in apw allows me to do as a monk there one advantage a tru monk has over any other class and even other monks and that patience.

ive seen it over n over agin peeps rather hurry pull three mobs and if it get to bad evac  u mentioned u dont get to pull in grps other classes did most of the pulling i /agree ive seen it .

whats gonna happen in apw ??  lots peeps so used to three four mobs pulls with evac on stand by.

then dont forget getting 50% in the fight all these other classes better no whats up monks cant chain heal work agrro ect ect  they dont listen n learn n react correctly  grps gonna wipe.  my advice is just be patient observe and play close attention to what u can and cannot do.

Corpse runs was refering to raid whipes, ONE monk can run back and rez a healer after a whipe.  No rogue/ranger can do it.


Yeah rangers ae's are hella nice, they are also a finisher from a crit, and 1 min reuse time.  A dragon monk can average 5k, 5k 15k with our ae line every 30 seconds (with bard in group, which in raids there always will be and jin strike for the last hit)

Dont forget monks (dragon) get 2 regular ae's that far out damage rangers , and ours are instant reuse, 1 big dmg ae every min doesnt mean squat if we can do 10-12 in the same time and surpass their dmg.  We may not get a 70k hit on an ae finisher, but im happy with raid buffs hitting for 15k on an ae every 30 sec, then spaming my 5k ae ( dragon one with bard/cleric buffs) for the remaining 20 seconds i wait on refresh.

In a ranged fight, rangers win hands down, and a fight where mobs flux or are constantly moving, monks >rogues>rangers.  Changes to rangers means they have to spec in wisdom if they want to put up a decent ranged fight, which means they have to pick Ranged or melee. 

Another pro of a monk, is if you are smart you can go full out dps and never peel.  1 fd at 15 seconds into the fight and another at 45 into the fight (on average 5 min boss fight) and your so low on the agro list you can go full out till about 3-4 minutes, and then you can feign again.



Yes disciples can fd pull, as long as their 1 fd a min works.  Thats right their fd is a 1 min reuse. 

Yes necros can fd pull, and better so with their pets, but they dont get 40 range stars to give them an advantage/running start, a necro 20-25 meters from a raid mob will probably agro. making their atempt next to useless.

Non-monks pulling for an entire raid clearing is almost not even an option.

Understant we are talking about lvl 53 mobs here. That puts FD at 80% chance of success. (I personally have failed 6 times in a row before)

Necros have a cast time and little to no mitigation. you will be rezzing/rebuffing them all night long.

Disc have a 1min timer so they can attempt a pull every min with a guarented death if they fail, which they will.. 20% of the time.

You can argue all the points you want but from a rading standpoint you must have atleast 1 monk to effectively raid in APW.

Notice I said effectively. If your content spending all night wasting time rezzing/rebuffing other classes that dont have an instant reuse FD then by all means you can. Or you can just let multiple people die on every pull and use the REAL FD that all classes get. Either way it's prety rediculous and should be a very last resort.

All of this couldnt be more True and should only get better for us as the monk class gets further tweaks as the game  progresses.
Though our guild only has 3 monks 2 are Always in the raid.That said I think it boils down to How you and your Guild raid leaders Play.Alot of people still dont realize a monk or 2 monks potential ,its up to us to tell and show them.