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Author Topic: Upcoming Monk Changes  (Read 13827 times)
Deshiro Mifune
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« Reply #60 on: October 19, 2007, 07:57:16 AM »

  • RiTW : You asked for it you got it, All 3 versions now last longer cost lowered to 10 end and now with a reuse timer of 1 min. Rejoice!.
~QTM

Damn nice! This would bump up defense special for us Dragons.  Really nice change, i love it!. Thanks for your work Quinn.
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Khana Kopnisien
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« Reply #61 on: October 19, 2007, 10:35:41 AM »

Time to derail the arguement about stuff not even on test  yet with the latest and greatest from Talisker;

  • RiTW : You asked for it you got it, All 3 versions now last longer cost lowered to 10 end and now with a reuse timer of 1 min. Rejoice!.
  • Dragon, Sun Dragon's Carona  Should be a PBAOE similar to clerics but with Fire DS comoponent built in

~QTM


Great on the RitW. Why change Sun Dragon's Corona to a PBAE? I've asked the question repeatedly. That's what Dragon Breath is about. I don't want yet another AE. I actually like the fire resistance, it's about the only thing that makes sense about the ability. How about this: make it fire resistance plus a chance at a fire DoT STACKING with Secret of Fire. I'd rather have another DoT than another AE any day.

Quote from: McSlappy
You should be getting as hard as a pure caster in offensive stance as a dragon, the thing that was broken is you should be doing as much if not more damage.  The whole yin and yang thing.  take a look at my idea for passives, I think the passives would add a lot to the styles and increase their flavor.
I've said it before. There's no way a FIGHTER should EVER get hit more than a CASTER, with maybe the exclusion of clerics. We're trained to fight, pantsy clothies aren't. It doesn't make sense for an offensive stance to make your ARMOR worse - becasue that's what it's currently doing. It DOES makes sense for an offensive stance to lower your AVOIDANCE. Focusing on attacking means you're spending less time defending, not stripping down armor.
Either the mitigation penalty needs to go and get replaced by an avoidance penalty, or the mitigation penalty just needs to go. Even with the incoming changes, we won't be dealing more damage than rangers as it is. I'd settle for the mitigation penalty going back to what it was, but I still wouldn't agree on that mechanic.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2007, 10:37:21 AM by Khana Kopnisien » Logged

Khana Kopnisien  /\  50 Dragon Monk  /\  Lowland Elites  /\  Halgar
Fujitsu
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« Reply #62 on: October 19, 2007, 10:48:57 AM »

I agree 100% with khana

Dragons breath im cool with being a pbaoe. But i really would rather an offensive buff or a dot for sun dragons corona and NOT a pbaoe.

Personally id rather see dragon monks be kings of dots vs kings of ae's since aes are almost never used and no tank can hold ae agro anyways.  If it were me id make dragon breath a super version of feet of the fire dragon, sun dragons corona a chance to proc a dot, and divine tsunami would be replaced with a 3rd hit after sundering/gouging dragon that again dots.

To be 100% honest i havent used an ae in any group ive leveled in.  Ive used it when farming faction mobs 20 levels lower, and even then it takes 5 ae's to kill a lvl 30 - 3 dots at lvl 50 when i can kill one in 2 hits.

Also make sure magnificent drunken swagger (drunken avoidance buff) is adjusted to 5 min reuse to match the other buffs.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2007, 11:11:12 AM by Fujitsu » Logged

Draxs
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« Reply #63 on: October 19, 2007, 11:22:18 AM »

AEs are "almost" useless.

The only time i ever use AEs is when im grind faction on lowbie mobs.

I'm not complaining here, any upgrades are appreciated, but I am agreeing that I too could not care less about yet another button I will almost never use.
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Draxs
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Diagoras
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« Reply #64 on: October 19, 2007, 11:36:26 AM »

These posts are evil, I'm shaking with anticipation yet it will likely be months before the rest happens Sad
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Quinn the Mighty
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« Reply #65 on: October 19, 2007, 11:51:46 AM »

Sooner rather than later.


Quick question on how far out till we see these changes on Test?
Talisker says:
Early next week I believe.

~QTM
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Quinn the Mighty
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« Reply #66 on: October 19, 2007, 11:54:56 AM »

Guys, I am backing off any changes to  Sun Dragons Corona as it's clear I dont have a good perception of what y'all want. I'll be starting a new thread specificly to discuss this.

~QTM
« Last Edit: October 19, 2007, 11:57:10 AM by Quinn the Mighty » Logged
Quinn the Mighty
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« Reply #67 on: October 19, 2007, 12:04:48 PM »

Quote
Stuff I had talked about but need to double check on

General: Iron Skin being moved to a 5 min reuse timer.
Dragon, Sun Dragon's Carona  Should be a PBAOE similar to clerics but with Fire DS comoponent built in
Harmonious: Flying Kick Line damage adjustments
Drunken: Errant Strikes reuse down to 5 mins

General: Iron Skin, Is indeed on a 5 min timer now
Harmonious: Flying Kick Line will stay as is for the moment as it's 0 reuse time should even it out. DPS testing will define weather it needs a tweak.
Dragon: Sun Dragon's Corona, Changes put on hold pending community feedback
Drunken: Errant strikes reuse is indeed down to 5 mins

I also neglected to report that the Drunken Ability Magnificient Stagger is being changed. Reduced to 2 Jin cost and 5 mins reuse timer.
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Hanzou Masamori
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« Reply #68 on: October 19, 2007, 08:34:39 PM »

Couple of random thoughts heh, first, Aum Liat- is there any chance this might have its endurance penalty removed? It always seemed kind of out of place to have a penalty on *this Aum* when the others are pretty much wholely beneficial no?

Secondly out of curiousity is there any plans to do more Style specific stance tweaking? It would make sense to me for example, that Dragon Monks, taking usually the most punishment of the three styles when they are taking damage have a superior health regeneration stance- so while a Dragon Monk may end a fight at around 30 percent health where the other Monk types are around 70 percent or so, at least the Dragon would have the ability to get back on his feet a little quicker. I for one also wouldnt mind seeing a little boost to the Crit Rate mainly, and DPS bonus secondarily on Legendary Storm Dragon.

And thirdly, Drunken really could use a little bit of a boost defensively on its main tanking stance, it should stand out as a quasi-tank/offtank among the offensive fighters. Around 2-3 percent greater parry/dodge would be perfect imo. Just some thoughts, cheers~
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-Hanzou Masamori
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« Reply #69 on: October 20, 2007, 09:18:24 AM »

Looking at Harmonious Diamond skin innate ability, Im happy and think it makes sense-the Harmonious monk should be the defensive stance while Drunken is the middle, even though originally Drunken was meant to be defensive, I think it makes more sense for the Harmonious to be-the Harm monk as a bunch of debuffs, the only purpose of most is to weaken the mob so that he can survive tanking.

The Devs sem to have gotten confused as to which should do what, the Drunken mob does more damage than Harm and has the taunts, however while he can keep aggro, he struggles to tank, I changed to Harm from drunken becasue Harm abilities allow me to tank   with a small group, yet I struggle with aggro, it needs to be decided which is which, and it makes sense for the Harm to be the defensive tank type monk-tbh the Harm debuffs are of little use if Im not tanking, I play a pally and have no real use for a monk debuffing the mobs str, I can tank everything in the game easily as it is, so the only use of the Harm damage debuffs is to allow the monk to tank, so then making the drunken the tanking monk makes no sense to me
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Fujitsu
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« Reply #70 on: October 20, 2007, 04:13:10 PM »

Sigh, i really dont get where you people get off thinking harmonious is more defensive.

1) Its only at 50 that drunken has more dps then harmonious.
2) Drunken have 2 less REGULAR attacks then harmonious,(deadly adder/eagle claw) ie they can use cresent kick, boundless and ashen hand (if they have jin)
3) all of drunksn attacks do less damage with the exception of the 2 thousand fist finishers.
  • 5 min reuse garunteed crit - Dragon>Harmonious>drunken
    2 min finish opener dragon (melee + 360)> harmonious (360) >drunken (0 dmg)
    Their original finisher (their version of northwind) is the same DIRECT dmg, but north wind adds dmg over time on top)
    Drunkens dodge is more direct dmg then harmonious or dragon, but harmonious is instant reuse, drunk/drag have a 1 min cool down
    TWO of drunkens attacks FORCE the targets to hit the drunken monk for the next 2 hits (single target) to 5 hits (ae), where as harmonious have ZERO taunts
    Drunkens tank buff is INSTANT recast, harmonious is 30 currently (wave hands) and will be 5 after the change

Im not sure why so many harmonious insist they are the tank monks, sure they can debuff and make it easier to solo, but drunken has the agro control, drunken has the fewest attacks and weakest ones (finisher excluded).  If you guys insist on making harmonious defensive, i really hope they remove the taunts from drunken, and up their damage on their regular attacks so all the drunken monks who arent 50 can keep up dps with harmonious monks.
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Diagoras
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« Reply #71 on: October 21, 2007, 05:01:55 AM »

The reason I think Harm is more the tank monk is simple-My drunken couldnt handle it, my Harm can.  Its why I think the game is confused, they started with the idea the Drunk would be the tank type-aggro tools, then at 50 they end up being more DPS and a cross between offensive and defensive.  Meanwhile the Harm doesnt have the ability to grab agro, yet can actually tank when he does.  The str/damage debuffs are serving one purpose-the ability for the monk to tank, if you have a tank in group those debuffs mean crap, sure its a pretty little extra, but I'd rather have a monk in my group doing all out DPS

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Fujitsu
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dustincfoley@live.com dfoley323
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« Reply #72 on: October 24, 2007, 10:37:30 AM »

any word on
    * 0 jin cost Storm Stride
    * Damage boost to crescent kick
    * 5 min reuse timer on celerity
    * Ashen Hand is going to be 400% weapon damage
   
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Meiyo
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« Reply #73 on: October 24, 2007, 12:54:49 PM »

agree with fujitsu, if you take my drunken abilies I hope my dps sure goes up
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Convict Meiyo
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« Reply #74 on: October 25, 2007, 11:10:06 AM »

These are suggestions for quinn on other skills that still need to be looked at
Jin surgeIn short, the skill is nice, and adds decent damage when it works.

Problems
It is consumed on a miss (this was fixed on rangers and rogues, where it is only consumed on HITs instead of swings)
The description doesnt change from level 1 to 50, so we have no clue what % we are getting increased, how it scales etc.

Suggestions
Change it to only be consumed on HITS
Add the description for the damage it adds
Maybe make it scale so at 50 it adds the damage for 5 hits (jin surge 1 adding dmg for 1 hit)
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