I'm in full agreement on this one.  It doesn't provide really that much if any benefit in PvE but would help the monk out a lot in pvp.

While d&d is nice, its always easier to balance stuff on paper then in application. 

I wont disagree with your vanguard statements as they are pretty much all true.  However looking at the list of d&d stuff, i cant say i would want most of that.

Flurry = rangers echo

Resists= something this game really hasnt worked at yet, its still in the pre planes of power eq1 phase were you either get good gear or you get resist. (blue diamond jewlery!) While potentially useful, i dont think the developers are ready to balance resists yet sadly.

Poison/ageing immunity = doesnt really fit vanguard, not unless they add immunities to each class, which would then just bring up whining about some people being immune to worthless spells vs others being immune to better spells.

Catch arrows= not horrible, but it doesnt add squat to our class, even if we pull an archer, its not gonna make the archer come to us, well just sit there and catch his arrows for 2 hours.


As far as unarmored ac, i really dont see why it would matter.  Im not gonna go naked for 5% more mitigation, not if im going to lose 300str/dex and 30% crit rate.


The problem is, this isnt a D&D game, its not eq1, and its not eq2 or wow.  Ideas from other games are a great influence sure, but the mechanics of this game as so vastly different then any other game. 
1) Auto attack - After you press an attack ability, your timer starts for your weapons, when the timer reaches the delay of your weapon then you swing, but every time you press a new button the timer resets.  So haste is worthless for 90% of weapons.  Infact, auto attack dps is less then 5% of most peoples dps.  This is the single biggest reason why this game differes from others.  It forces people to get large dmg weapons (preferably dual wield) and to ignore the dps/delay
2) Theres no real penalty in any class.  Eq1 you had monks with a weight limit, which was cool because it forced you to play a certain way.  Here theres no penalty of any class so no class can really justify asking for something more that other classes dont get.  IE monks dont deserve something like arrow catch or immunity to poison unless all classes got something similar, which by that point removes the uniqueness and utility that it would have brought.

Well, I was pointing out to McSlappy that what he was asking for is counter-balanced with something else in D&D, and expanding on that thought.

First off, as has been pointed out in other threads, we probably have the same DPS as rogues at high levels, and lower than rangers and bards (if you add up what their buffs add to group DPS), yet they all have more utility. They wouldn't need to add immunities to every class to give us one immunity, point one, and point two the immunity wouldn't have to be permanent.

Catching arrows does, as Matsu pointed out, prolong our survival on a pull. Even 2-dot mobs will kill you in 4 ranged shots, where the melees would take longer to beat you down. That's a pretty hefty difference, and catching those arrows would thus be a good addition to our class. It could also give us a small amount of class-generated income, like rangers and rogues have with Forage and Pickpocket, respectively.

And the unarmored AC: in D&D, light armour is still permitted. When the Monk wears Medium armour, the AC bonus is lost. But still: there's little Light armour with the stats we need, so I agree, that wouldn't be a good addition.

Yeah, exactly my point of contention, which is why I listed the balancing factors in D&D versus those in VG.