okay added poisons, etc

1) its a 40 sec mez
2) it requires droped and pickpocketed items to make
3) all of them are decently expensive at 50. 

These do add quite a bit of utility to rogues, however they werent joking when they say rogues will be expensive to play well.  Poisons are nice, however id venture to say id use most my materials on mez darts and evak scrolls.  Maybe a few water breathing/levitate ones also

For a lot of these you have to take into account the FREE bridges which significantly enhance their damage.  Also Blade of Storms echos and doing exponential damage the more mobs there are.  Can be incredibly over powered.  You have to watch out for things like this with the rangers cause a lot of the attacks have secondary reinforcements which aren't obvious or well spec'd that make what look like weak attacks incredibly powerful.


surprisingly it works much better in practice than the description suggests.  With any half way decent tank, 2 regress and they have no aggro.



remember all of these are FREE which makes them incredibly powerful.  It would be like doing kick/ashen hand and getting a free instant ashen hand, etc.  So while some of them may appear not that great, if they are free...


It is based on int, but rangers I know without spending points in int do get 1600+ dmg/32 sec.


Debilitating shot isn't so overpowered when you realize it breaks on dmg.
Poison shot actually is pretty decent, it still does bow damage in addition to the dot.
Splitting arrow does do HIGH damage, but mainly do to the broken nature of range damage in the game.


windsong isn't that random and ends up doing a LOT more damage than any of our finishers in practice.  For the rangers in my guild an avg of 20-40k to 50-53 6 dot mobs and upwards of 100k+. 
Also the ranged finishers do a lot more than flying kick...

Maelstrom also echos, very very high damage AE.  it and blade of storms are the highest damage AEs in the game with the right conditions


our learned skills are complete crap atm.  COMPLETE CRAP!  And this is pretty much compared to every other class in the game.


yeah but it doesn't matter cause 100% is 100%.  the extra 60% just goes to waste.



yep "weak" but 100000000000000x better than our heal.  This alone is a MAJOR boost to rangers both solo and in groups.  And don't underestimate it in a RAID situation.  Considering the dev fondness with mob AoE = harder mob, rangers have a MASSIVE advantage in raids.  I know from testing that monks tend to die while rangers tend to live while taking down raid mobs with aoes.

While we don't see this now against normal mobs, it will be a major issue going forward.  I also play a healer and I know  I would rather have a ranger than a monk in a raid group any day of the week, esp if the monk can't use rez stones to in combat rez.  At that point they just become a massive mana sink compared to rangers with little to no upside.


also forgot to mention that these are the BEST arrows in game and can be sold for a HUGE profit on the AH.  So basically free money and free consumables and can be done AFK. 

Imagine if we could auto-craft 50 range +5% crit 400 dmg throwing stars and you get the idea, and imagine almost every class in the game wanted to buy them!



don't forget the remove stance part of cripple, its actually very nice against some mobs.  I would say about even with the harmonious -dmg debuff.


Their finishers tend to do as much if not more damage than monk finishers in practice because the the "hidden" parts of the attacks.  This is just from looking at logs, etc.


I don't believe this is true in practice.  Rangers tend to be able to take down for instance, a 2 dot or 3 dot about 30% faster than a monk.



There are a lot of mobs that cat as animal even though you wouldn't think it, all of ichy for example.

appreciate the comments mcslappy but alot of your comments on my post were on the monk vs ranger post, not the actual post whre i listed what the abilities do.

I realize the attacks echo, i have it stated in the original that they have a chance to hit again. (or should its on my word doc)

Ill change the description of debilitating shot... thanks for the heads up on that

Ill fix poison shot too, none of the descriptions mention anything about weapon dmg.

Splitting arrow does about the same dmg as dragon rakes its claws, which is still weak if fighting even con 4 dots+++

I said their heal was better then our ignore pain, not sure what the problem was there.

Windsong is their best melee finisher, with the talismon of the wind, and the bridge, windsong will do 40k dmg.   Not gonna deny that, but windsong on its own doesnt does about the same dmg as thousand fist. (which ive crited for 30-40k often with when grouped with a bard)

Again i know about the echos,and that there are conditions that can make them more powerful, maelstrom is good yes, but its base stats are weak, its the fact that it echos at all that make it even remotely useful, "special" conditions aside, its fine.

Parry 3 is so bad compared to ours.  You realize 160% dodge means u get 100% dodge vs a lvl 56, where as a ranger gets 40% parry vs a 56?  Its not the same sorry.

Profit on arrows really isnt a utility, sure they make nice arrows, but they dont stack to 200.  Im not dissing forage, and fletching, just remember that profit isnt utility.

and atm i can craft 300 dmg 40 range throwing stars with 5% crit :-o  go do celestial ward. (on test, going live in gu3)

again, cripple says it removes stance, your looking at the wrongg post

1) Grouped with a bard says nothing at all. When comparing classes, do it by basing it on their own abilities. The same ranger will deal higher than 40k damage if grouped with a bard, so the point is moot.

2) It's not utility, but considering gear makes you more powerful and money gets you that gear...it's an innate class advantage.

3) Not tradeable, as they're both No Sell and Soulbound

I have to disagree on the rogue versus monk comparison.  I have a 50 monk and a 40 rogue, the rogue damage is better by far.  Now they do require a good tank but damage wise they will own monk.  Monk has better deaggro, but rogue does get a poison to reduce aggro and a flechette that reduces major aggro.  Then can restealth with smoke bomb.  With a good solid tank, the rogue will own a monk in damage.  Their shank/shiv/ravage line is better damage than thousand fists and has absolutely no cooldown.  I can do it all fight right now.  Maybe that is a bug, but until they change that the rogue will own monk.  Imagine how much damage monk would do if thousand fist was available for every chain.

none of the stance stuff works atm in pvp...

there are several mobs that go into a damage absorption stance that it works wonders on.  And expect several raid mobs to use stances as well.

'd like to point ot that Rangers only really use Crit shot, finishers and poison arrow.  Rangers endurance does not recharge while shooting a bow, so they either have to stop using it to regain or have lots of regen items (which when its fixed will not be so effective).

I have to admit, Ranger seems far better than the monk, I play both (I play a rogue to but dont enjoy the class), now, Im a very young monk at 15 so I know things change later, but as it stands, my ranger was doing better damage than my monk at same lvl, the bow is nothing more than an opener and kiting tool, in terms of fights the rangers damage comes from melee.

Our ignore pain is insultingly bad, there is no reason for this not to be improved-its recast should be significantly reduced and its health should be significantly increased, perhaps as a % of our health not a set number.  Ranger heal is weak but a fast recast and can be cast on anyone, our Ignore Pain is self only, ridiculous recast as well as being weak

I was thinking rather, for int and vit, to have the numbers they WANT based on what a monk would have with no modifiers put in int/wis. IE, you will see almost rediculous numbers on the trainer, but they will be in-line with what monks should have when you actually train (if not a bit bellow) having really powerful moves like this would also encourage a more diverse built to monks instead of "dump everything into strengh and dex" mentality.

I wish we had similar upgrades to our stun like rogues, for duration. (Nerve strike)

Example :
You want the average monk to do 500 damage per hit with Secret of Fire. Have the damage be 750, so when reduction gets applied you get 500. However, if a monk concentrated on int, they could get up to 750 (which would make int actually worthwhile-ish)

Same for heal, if you want the heal to be for 2000, put it at 3000 as a base, so the average monk will get 2000 without putting in vit, but should they get racial modifiers or work on vit (or get buffed) it could go up to something much more impressive.