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Vanguard Monks  |  Monk Discussion  |  Monk General  |  FD 2.0 to arrive GU #3 « previous next »
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Author Topic: FD 2.0 to arrive GU #3  (Read 8695 times)
Quinn the Mighty
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« on: August 14, 2007, 06:58:07 AM »

Per Talisker coding has completed the initial work on FD 2.0. Some of this you have heard before but just in case you missed it here ya go.

Initial specs
  • You are assumed to have a max skill for your level (level 50 = 500)
  • There will be 1 skill check vs. the highest level mob you are in combat with. You pass the check you live. You fail all mobs will continue to beat the telon out of you. (Read this as no more mobs hanging out around you  not attacking while the others go home)
  • Base Chance to successfully FD = 90% vs. even con mob, -5% penalty per level disparity between player and mob. (Was orginally 10% but I argued that unless they came out with + FD gear monks would be little more than a  speed bump in the raid game.)
  • Mobs should walk back to thier bind spot randomly. I am trying to find out the max time on this as I think there was no upper celing and led to mob corpse camping of FD players.

Please post your feedback here.

~QTM
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Ravnor
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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2007, 09:14:18 AM »

So FD is becoming a skill instead of an ability? Are the END costs and reuse timer remaining the same for all tiers?
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Quinn the Mighty
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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2007, 09:34:44 AM »

It is an ability, from a comparitve point of view there are skill numbers associated with the ability.  I was just relaying that it's usefullness is not tied to prcatice / repittion of the ability but rather just the level of the player.

~QTM
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Solandis
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2007, 10:56:07 AM »

you can see it like the spell of a sorc for example. they too have a skill attached to the ability. alteration, evocation ...

edit: sounds nice btw
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Fujitsu
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2007, 11:08:21 AM »

sounds decent, but being as its game update 3, it seems kinda far  Cry

The only thing i would suggest is maybe adding a memwhipe componet to.  AKA stay feign for 2 minutes and any mobs agro that might still be on you is still forced away.  JUST incase we still see mobs corpse camping.

My only other thought would be that there are already mobs that are immune to feign death.  The wyvrens at the volcano come to mind.  Even with a succesful feign, they will still run at you and attack you at lvl 50.  I understand they are guardian wyvrens, but if they are immune to FD then im troubled as to what else will be as far as raid content.
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LeadFoot
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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2007, 03:20:24 PM »

Anyway to take FD off of the global cool down.  We are supposed to have 0 refresh on FD but the global cool down is enforcing a 2 sec delay.  Would love to get rid of that if the Failure chances are going to be so high.

Does this mean we have a 95% chance of success at level 49 mob, and 100% chance for any mob 48 and below?
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Quinn the Mighty
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« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2007, 06:45:36 AM »

Yeah if we are higher level then a bonus would be applied although I am sure it caps at like 99% to always give that chance at a spectacular failure.

Good point about certian mobs seeing through FD although I have only encountered one or 2 ot them., I'll have to make a point to ask about that.

~QTM
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Mortiferous
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« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2007, 11:00:45 AM »

Per Talisker coding has completed the initial work on FD 2.0. Some of this you have heard before but just in case you missed it here ya go.

Initial specs
  • Mobs should walk back to thier bind spot randomly. I am trying to find out the max time on this as I think there was no upper celing and led to mob corpse camping of FD players.

Please post your feedback here.

~QTM

Is there any mention if this applies to linked mobs as well?  It sounds like we're getting something similar to the old EQ feign death where mobs walked back to their spawn spot and reset one-by-one.  We picked the last mob before it reset and before the mob got close enough to chain-aggro other mobs.

Anything along these lines or is it considered an exploit to break up linked mobs?

As I remember, FD pulling in old EQ was initially considered an exploit but later became a normal game mechanic...
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Mortiferous - Level 50 Dragon Style monk
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« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2007, 12:25:27 PM »

The actualy mechanics of what they are giving us, IS a tool to fd and split mobs.

That being said, if mobs are truely LINKED then they will agro no matter what.  Theres a few examples of this in game at the moment... Xenn and the island of madness come to mind.

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Mordan
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« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2007, 02:52:25 AM »

I am happy to see the change to some of the mechanics to FD. However, I still think the FD success rates will need some tuning.

The nice thing about the way the new FD works is that it will help Monks get a group with people 3 or 4 levels below them who are killing mobs in their level range, since FD will now work properly. But would you take a monk who is 2 or 3 levels below you, given the fact that every 3 or 4 mob pulls you could be rezzing him again.

I am sorry but 90% base chance - 5% per level is not very good, unless they are going to change the mob difficulty. Basically a level 40 Monk will fail 1 in 5 FDs splitting a bunch of level 42 mobs, if he is in a group of level 42s killing even cons. If this seems an unreasonable assessment, by me,  then I am happy to be corrected. With the prevalence of mob capability to stun, I don't see this change going anywhere to be honest. Do caster spells have a 20% chance of failing to land on mobs 2 levels above them?
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Waarrah
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« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2007, 05:30:14 AM »

Even worse is, consider the following scenario. Lets say you are FD pulling. Most likely you are doing this because you dont have enough crowd control for the encounter.  Lets say....your lvl 40, pulling a group of 5 mobs, all lvl 42.  This is really not an unreasonable encounter. A skilled monk in EQ could do this in his sleep. But here...in Vanguard. You have a 80% success rate as someone pointed out. If there are 5 mobs chances are ONE will see through you....which means you now have 5 mobs that disbelieve the FD...."Loading, Please Wait" comes to mind.
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Quinn the Mighty
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« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2007, 07:07:31 AM »

Looks like there is some confusion. Regardless of the number of mobs you are attmepting to split it's still 1 check for all mobs currently aggro against you not 5 checks.

~QTM
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LeadFoot
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« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2007, 08:26:39 AM »

While I am not particularly happy with the 5% part, I don't think it is as dire as people think.  Monks do have skills that will allow them to survive a failed FD.  Personally I like the fact that there is one check versus a check against all mobs.  Now if you happen to fail FD twice in a row, that will be a problem.  FD could be made more effective if we really did have the 0 delay we are supposed to have in between FD.  But since it is on a cool down, it actually does force a delay on a skill that should have 0 delay.  Not sure why this is done, but I think it is kind of stupid.
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Mortiferous
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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2007, 10:05:44 AM »

Can anyone say what our base chance of success with FD is now?  I'm guessing it's probably pretty close if not identical to the 90% base vs equal level mobs we're talking about with FD 2.0.

As I read it, the difference will be that we make 1 check vs the highest level mob rather than making a successful check for each mob.  If this is the case, then I think we can expect fewer FD fails overall.

Anyway, i see no problem with the +/- 5% per level adjustment.  We have a 1-second refresh on FD and several skills to help us survive a beating for a couple seconds, not to mention swapping out for a parrying sword when pulling.  It's a level-based skill, not an 'easy' button.
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Mortiferous - Level 50 Dragon Style monk
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« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2007, 10:39:35 AM »

Anyway, i see no problem with the +/- 5% per level adjustment.  We have a 1-second refresh on FD and several skills to help us survive a beating for a couple seconds, not to mention swapping out for a parrying sword when pulling.  It's a level-based skill, not an 'easy' button.

Stop putting up straw man arguments, no one in this thread said they wanted an 'easy' button.
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