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Vanguard Monks  |  Monk Discussion  |  Monk General  |  Looking for community input on P.E.H. chain « previous next »
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Author Topic: Looking for community input on P.E.H. chain  (Read 2399 times)
Quinn the Mighty
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« on: August 02, 2007, 01:38:52 PM »

Like the title says, with upcoming changes P.E.H. really needs to be addressed soon
currently looking for it to Keep the current 3 step attack dealing the majority of the damage at the end

  • 3 finger Strike: add staggered, and small snare (gasping for breath and all)
  • Hammer Strike: Decent Duration Stun
  • P.E.H.: Hit for a healthy amount, melee damage + 5K  (Still on the fence about trying to convert this into a % based attack though)

looking for feedback.

~QTM
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Fujitsu
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dustincfoley@live.com dfoley323
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2007, 03:20:48 PM »

How about:

3 Finger strike adds --> Staggered, exploits (any of the ones we can add)
hammer Fist ---> exploits Staggered, adds spirit wrench
PEH ----> exploits spirit wrench, adds whatever

That way each attack opens an exploit for the follow attack.

Im going to assume your not REMOVIng the dmg from the first 2 steps.  So i would say

3 finger --->small snare +10% avoidance decrease for 10 sec+ dmg
hammer--->stun + additional 10% avoidance decrease  for 5 sec, stacks with 3 finger+ dmg
PEH ---> i think a minimum dmg of 5k is a good start, but at the same time thousand fist hits for about 3k-5k on average as is, that + thunderfist is easily about 8k for 2 attacks.    Im really a fan of skills that improve as we improve.  400% melee dmg +5k would be about 9k solo (slightly more then thousand fist+thundering fist)

i also prefer mods of Melee dmg over mods of weapon dmg. but thats my personal prefrence.

Atleast then each hit in the chain opens an exploit for the next as well as help increase the chance of the next hit landing.
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Fujitsu
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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2007, 04:42:48 PM »

Just thought i should add.

43 monk - gulgeroth server
dustincharles - name on vanguard boards
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Sybrant
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« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2007, 07:53:04 PM »

Like the title says, with upcoming changes P.E.H. really needs to be addressed soon
currently looking for it to Keep the current 3 step attack dealing the majority of the damage at the end

  • 3 finger Strike: add staggered, and small snare (gasping for breath and all)
  • Hammer Strike: Decent Duration Stun
  • P.E.H.: Hit for a healthy amount, melee damage + 5K  (Still on the fence about trying to convert this into a % based attack though)

looking for feedback.

~QTM

I agree with these changes. It would be nice to finally be able to enjoy these end-game attacks, instead of using it when there is nothing better ready to execute. Even if we could get Melee DMG + 5000K, the skill would be twice as useful as it is now, making it acceptable. 3 Finger strike and hammer strike should definitely have a chance to exploit the mob in some way more so then other attacks, as the idea of the attack is exploiting the enemy in an attempt to "explode the heart"

Bottomline: These changes would bring us much closer to RANGERS and ROGUES end game DPS. Our end game chain is NOT powerful enough to justify using over the other moves we gain in earlier levels.
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sarmone
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2007, 02:29:11 AM »

maybe add crit+ on this abilities since most abilities on all classes has another crit%  and status doesnt have an effect
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LeadFoot
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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2007, 06:14:00 AM »

To justify a 5 minute timer, the damage should be double thousand fist chain damage. 
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Quinn the Mighty
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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2007, 08:02:40 AM »

Random thoughts about this as from last night as I sit in RI waiting for my guild;

* P.E.H. You really only should be able to do this 1 time per mob. I mean seriously, how many times can you explode someones heart?
* Should be rediculously devestating 1 time per mob, This could get around the needi for a reuse timer
     * Big Damage: Melee Damage + 5K, perhaps add a big DoT as the target bleeds out??  potentially another 5K in DoT damage.
* I really like the idea of the individual moves parts creating weaknesses for the next part of the chain.

Great feedback so far

~QTM

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Fujitsu
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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2007, 08:22:47 AM »

When i think of PEH, just the name, i think of kill bill episode 2 and how devestating it was.

5k + melee dmg +5k in dot over 30 sec with hammer strike adding some kind of "increased chance to crit on next strike"

5 min reuse time is fine, as long as the whole chain does more dmg then thousand fist/thunder fist could do in 5 min. 
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Waarrah
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« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2007, 02:08:36 PM »

Random thoughts about this as from last night as I sit in RI waiting for my guild;

* P.E.H. You really only should be able to do this 1 time per mob. I mean seriously, how many times can you explode someones heart?

*snip*
~QTM



By that same logic....What about mobs who do not possess a heart....Ie undead?  While ghouls and other "fleshy" creatues may infact possess a heart...does it still beat and as such would its destruction be of any concenquence?  And then that brings us to our good friends the skeletons...who dont even have a heart.

Further more if we do folllow that same logic. You are creating a situation where as necros and monks will NOT play nice togather. As the necro will want to turn things undead for mez and damage, and for the pallys and clerics. And monks will want things *NOT* undead.

And then there are mobs out there that i have not named that also most likely do not possess a heart....Golems? Sandstorms? Those spinning rock cloud things...ect  Various other types of "elemental" creatures.

While exploding the heart sounds very cool...how about a technique that instead disrupts the "Jin" or life force of a creature. Thus allowing it to affect ALL creatures. Even undead have some sort of "life force" driving them...magic included.
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Sybrant
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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2007, 02:39:52 PM »

I wouldnt confuse them by throwing too many requested changes at them, or they might just ignore it altogether. Keep it a simple DPS increase with prehaps a DOT that could hit (nice idea) and it would kick some serious ass.
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Yoshimura Mohashimu
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« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2007, 05:36:09 PM »

Quote
Random thoughts about this as from last night as I sit in RI waiting for my guild;

* P.E.H. You really only should be able to do this 1 time per mob. I mean seriously, how many times can you explode someones heart?
* Should be rediculously devestating 1 time per mob, This could get around the needi for a reuse timer
     * Big Damage: Melee Damage + 5K, perhaps add a big DoT as the target bleeds out??  potentially another 5K in DoT damage.
* I really like the idea of the individual moves parts creating weaknesses for the next part of the chain.

These are awesome ideas.  I really like the dot at the end to.  After taking a pounding like that there should be some sort of internal bleeding going on.
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Yoshimura Mohashimu
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« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2007, 07:32:51 AM »

I'd agree with Quinn's original concept, plus each step exploiting the previous step's weakness, plus the big DoT.
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Khana Kopnisien  /\  50 Dragon Monk  /\  Lowland Elites  /\  Halgar
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2007, 04:13:06 AM »

ok, i'm only lvl 26 and playing on pve server right now (although that is about to change) i hope you still listen to me and i hope what i say makes sense.

first thing about the weaknesses and next step exploiting the weakness the former created. if i've understood the weakness system right all this does is add damage. while it sounds fancy all it does is to provide other group members a 2 second window to exploit the weakness before us, thus lowering our damage (and likly the damage of the whole group becuase there shoudn't be many attacks that are stronger than this chain). so if we add some sort of weakness and exploiting to the chain i say let this increase our synergy with other classes or as we already shine in group play just plain up the damage.

now about the debuffs and cooldowns.

three finger strike: the snare sounds nice but the most use it will get is in pvp since mobs only run away when low on health and then they tend to be slow already. as for pvp i had the problem that i mostly couldn't get a second attack of after the initial stormstride so the snare could come handy in here. but a high cooldown wouldn't be good.

hammer fist: stun sounds good

peh: the dot at the end will mostly be wasted on most easier mobs. but since i don't know what the current end game looks like. and how things are going to be in apw its a bit difficult for e to coment o this. may be you could put some other debuff on the mob weakening it so you can finish it off easly or preventing it from retaliating.
but it should do high damage for sure.

conclusion: with my momentary view of the game i would say make it something like this.

three finger strike: medium damage, lower then our normal attacks and adds a snare. 1 min refresh
hamer fist: high damage probably along the lines of flying kick or kick of the heavens + stun. 3 min refresh
palm explodes the heart: very high damage + bleed/debuff. 5 min refresh

keeping the previous links on the chain on lower refreshs allows us to use them for the utility more often. but keeps the high damage output in check by the high cooldowns on the damage heavy finishers. also shiftig most of the damage to PEH in contray to make all three do good damage may prevent of fro using this chain if stormstride to threeshot some low health cloth wearers. becuase with the snare and the stun they can hardly get away. and since damage is going to be capped at 40% player health making PEH do the most damage would play out well in my view.
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Paaw
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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2007, 11:33:20 AM »

Random thoughts about this as from last night as I sit in RI waiting for my guild;

* P.E.H. You really only should be able to do this 1 time per mob. I mean seriously, how many times can you explode someones heart?
* Should be rediculously devestating 1 time per mob, This could get around the needi for a reuse timer
     * Big Damage: Melee Damage + 5K, perhaps add a big DoT as the target bleeds out??  potentially another 5K in DoT damage.
* I really like the idea of the individual moves parts creating weaknesses for the next part of the chain.

Great feedback so far

~QTM




Interesting... Would be cool if they also add a "bonus" effect:
6 dots - Reduce HP to 1%, If mob hp < 5%
5 dots - Reduce HP to 1%, If mob hp < 10%
4 dots - Reduce HP to 1%, If mob hp < 20%
etc


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Mortiferous
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« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2007, 12:12:34 PM »

I agree it makes sense that a mob only has 1 heart to explode.  Moreso, it sounds like it would be life terminating experience for any mob not known to possess more than 1 heart. 

Anyway, it's very similar to the special ability granted to necros but I like the idea of a making this a finishing move that can only be used when the mob is below xx% of HP and it's an instant kill if the attack lands.

I think necro's have a special with a 10-minute refresh that kills any mob outright under 40% HP.  Might be kinda lame to have a skill just like another class but it makes the most amount of sense to me considering this is our big level 50 3-step finishing move.  In order for a monk to perform the ability we need to land all 3 attacks where the necro casts 1 spell so it doesn't seem overpowered in the least.
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Mortiferous - Level 50 Dragon Style monk
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