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Topic: Ignore Pain (Read 1548 times)
Waarrah
Recruit
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 11
Ignore Pain
«
on:
July 26, 2007, 01:52:43 PM »
/Delurk
Hey everyone, I've been quietly lurking here off and on for a while now. Please forgive me.
I recently remade a monk hes lvl 14 now. I had one in beta. Just never got around to a live one.
Anyways I noticed when I leveled the other day the amount healed by ignore pain went
DOWN
.
Now ignore pain has never been an impressive heal but now its not even healing 1 bubble of health.
My guess is its tied to vitality which right now sits at 83.x% effective.
I've been putting my points into str, dex, and the rest in Vit. There is no way I can keep my vitality up enough to make ignore pain useful.
Is it sopposed to be tied to vitality? Seems really silly to have to focus so much into one stat that basicly is only used for ONE skill on a 5 min cooldown.
Can we get it changed to heal a certain % of total hps, say...25% alla Everquest, or in the very least NOT work off vitality?
Logged
Quinn the Mighty
Monk Lead
Kyoshi
Sensei
Karma: +50/-38
Posts: 443
Re: Ignore Pain
«
Reply #1 on:
July 26, 2007, 03:59:16 PM »
Hi there Waarrah and welcome to active posting!!!!
Ignore Pain is indeed tied to Wis / Vitality stats, but you shouldn't notice a decrease in effectiveness unless you were doing your original checking when you were buffed. All of my testing has pretty much put ignore pain at roughly 20% give or take a couple of percentage points in total health
There are a couple of different threads going on this actually. I have made it known to the Dev team that portions of the monk community would rather Secrets / Ignore Pain have a flat number rather than be modifed by charector stats.
I do have it on good authority that there will be AA ability to modify Ignore Pain (Higher Base Heal / Critical Heals) however we wont see that for a while I imagine.
~QTM
Logged
Waarrah
Recruit
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 11
Re: Ignore Pain
«
Reply #2 on:
July 26, 2007, 04:57:43 PM »
Quote from: Quinn the Mighty on July 26, 2007, 03:59:16 PM
Ignore Pain is indeed tied to Wis / Vitality stats, but you shouldn't notice a decrease in effectiveness unless you were doing your original checking when you were buffed. All of my testing has pretty much put ignore pain at roughly 20% give or take a couple of percentage points in total health
~QTM
I'm fairly sure the reason it went down is there is some "magical number" that your vitality should be at to be 100% effective healing. That number scales each lvl. When I leveled it jumped up. But my vitality did not therefore i'm further away from that "magic number." If this trend continues It will get progressively worse and worse.
And in what way is it tied to wisdom? Wisdom affects crits and energy pools. I have NEVER seen a heal crit, not in beta, not on my shaman, not on my necros pet heal. (which is also tied to vit.)
Logged
Quinn the Mighty
Monk Lead
Kyoshi
Sensei
Karma: +50/-38
Posts: 443
Re: Ignore Pain
«
Reply #3 on:
July 27, 2007, 07:59:33 AM »
Actuallly that makes a fair amount of sense. I didn't think of the level playing a factor into it. As you level up you need more charector attribute points devoted to a stat to reach that "sweet" spot. TBH I am not sure 6 or 8 pts either way will bring the variations you have described though.
Wisdom I thought was tied to base healing. I could be mistaken as my poor shammy alt has been sitting on the shelf for a while so it is not out of the questions I could be mistaken about that. I'll double check that bit when I get home.
~QTM
Logged
Waarrah
Recruit
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 11
Re: Ignore Pain
«
Reply #4 on:
July 27, 2007, 04:02:53 PM »
So is this something that will be addressed. Or shall I pray for the AA ability?
In eq Sony had a tendacy to "Fix" broken spells or skills with AA's...I really dont want to see that trend start here.
Logged
Khana Kopnisien
Sensei
Karma: +9/-4
Posts: 369
Re: Ignore Pain
«
Reply #5 on:
July 30, 2007, 10:22:31 AM »
Quote from: Quinn the Mighty on July 27, 2007, 07:59:33 AM
Wisdom I thought was tied to base healing. I could be mistaken as my poor shammy alt has been sitting on the shelf for a while so it is not out of the questions I could be mistaken about that. I'll double check that bit when I get home.
~QTM
Nope, not really. The only stat directly tied to healing is Vitality.
Logged
Khana Kopnisien /\ 50 Dragon Monk /\ Lowland Elites /\ Halgar
Quinn the Mighty
Monk Lead
Kyoshi
Sensei
Karma: +50/-38
Posts: 443
Re: Ignore Pain
«
Reply #6 on:
July 30, 2007, 11:58:31 AM »
Yeah, It's definately not tied to Wisom (Energy Pool / Spell Crit Chance), So it's just Vitality as Y'all have stated.
I am not against any changes to Ignore Pain. e.g. another bump in it's effectiveness to compensate for low VIT. We already got a nudge in it's effectiveness and the thinking was get about 20% life out of it. Is this not enough??
Stuff we probably wont see;
* Jin based heal
* Complete Heal
* Targeted Heal
* % Based Healing ( I originally asked for this but, it got shot down)
How much more do y'all want to this? 30%, 50% more effectiveness?
Logged
Waarrah
Recruit
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 11
Re: Ignore Pain
«
Reply #7 on:
July 30, 2007, 04:14:28 PM »
5 min cool down the healing should be substanal....For example a dread knight can tap roughly 20% health with one hit.....on a 20 second cooldown... and every five mins can deal out a massive nuke with an insanely high chance to crit.
Point i'm trying to make 20 % on 5 min cool down is really very trivial compared to other classes...Our heal should probally be bumped up a bit...to roughly equal 25 or 30 %, its cooldown reduced to 3 mins...and have a high chance to "crit" heal. That should roughly put it in line with a 5 min cooldown.
You really gotta realize our heal is roughly = one more hit from a 3 + dot mob..
Logged
LeadFoot
Master
Karma: +2/-5
Posts: 82
Re: Ignore Pain
«
Reply #8 on:
July 31, 2007, 08:14:20 AM »
Not sure how we can compare ourselves to dread knights. Does not really make sense. Increasing the ignore pain effectiveness is really low on my priority list. However, I do get a bit upset when I realize that rangers can heal themselves all the time and bards get a mask with a 1200hp heal which can be used much more frequently than ignore pain. Still boggles my mind how a class that gets a heal, snare, massive range dmg, root, and charm can justify having significantly more damage than us. Screw ignore pain, I want more dps. And I want FD to work as intended. I want monks to have a purpose, and increasing ignore pain doesn't get us there.
Logged
Sybrant
Master
Karma: +0/-1
Posts: 53
Re: Ignore Pain
«
Reply #9 on:
July 31, 2007, 12:52:10 PM »
Quote from: LeadFoot on July 31, 2007, 08:14:20 AM
Not sure how we can compare ourselves to dread knights. Does not really make sense. Increasing the ignore pain effectiveness is really low on my priority list. However, I do get a bit upset when I realize that rangers can heal themselves all the time and bards get a mask with a 1200hp heal which can be used much more frequently than ignore pain. Still boggles my mind how a class that gets a heal, snare, massive range dmg, root, and charm can justify having significantly more damage than us. Screw ignore pain, I want more dps. And I want FD to work as intended. I want monks to have a purpose, and increasing ignore pain doesn't get us there.
Yup, I agree with this. My monk gets destroyed pretty bad by rangers on the parsar's, and there isn't much more I can do other then wait for my Hand of God King's next level to catch up, but I know that isn't going to do it.
Monks are average, but if you're going to put together a group you'll likely pass one up for a bard or ranger if you can because they just bring more to the group. Rangers, well, it's just plain not fair. They have us beat in groups and out of groups. They are an all around better choice in every possible way.
Logged
LeadFoot
Master
Karma: +2/-5
Posts: 82
Re: Ignore Pain
«
Reply #10 on:
July 31, 2007, 04:49:04 PM »
I am lvl 50 and duel wield torch bearers. My DPS still stinks in comparison. And now I hear bards running around talking about how the new changes may let them even surpass us in DPS. I have the best monk weapons in the game and still would get owned by a ranger and maybe even a bard now.
Logged
Waarrah
Recruit
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 11
Re: Ignore Pain
«
Reply #11 on:
July 31, 2007, 05:08:07 PM »
Quote from: LeadFoot on July 31, 2007, 08:14:20 AM
Not sure how we can compare ourselves to dread knights. Does not really make sense. Increasing the ignore pain effectiveness is really low on my priority list. However, I do get a bit upset when I realize that rangers can heal themselves all the time and bards get a mask with a 1200hp heal which can be used much more frequently than ignore pain. Still boggles my mind how a class that gets a heal, snare, massive range dmg, root, and charm can justify having significantly more damage than us. Screw ignore pain, I want more dps. And I want FD to work as intended. I want monks to have a purpose, and increasing ignore pain doesn't get us there.
The contrast I was trying to draw here was that Dread knights among other "non healing classes" can do the same heal as ours with only one use of an ability that does not have a cooldown. And I was trying to draw some comparassion for other similar abilities on a 5 min cool down and thier realitive power. IE my lvl 30 dread knight has pulled 3k crits on his Word of Doom. at roughly a 50-60% crit ratio. And i have also seen that same ablity crit upwards to 6.5k. The point here is everytime i use it i decide. Use it now? or save it for later? I have to stop and pause and make a choice about using this ablity. This is an example of a balanced 5 min coold down ability...Can we same the same about the very unimpressive ignore pain? To me the healing gained from ignore pain is so trivial it rarely is going to matter anyways.
Logged
Quinn the Mighty
Monk Lead
Kyoshi
Sensei
Karma: +50/-38
Posts: 443
Re: Ignore Pain
«
Reply #12 on:
August 02, 2007, 01:47:35 PM »
Quote from: LeadFoot on July 31, 2007, 04:49:04 PM
I am lvl 50 and duel wield torch bearers. My DPS still stinks in comparison. And now I hear bards running around talking about how the new changes may let them even surpass us in DPS. I have the best monk weapons in the game and still would get owned by a ranger and maybe even a bard now.
The new and improved bard rocks pretty good, they can kite just about anything now.
We will be getting more DPS tweaks. I'll post more information when I have something more tangible aside a quick one liner from SoE saying we are looking into that.
~QTM
Logged
Khana Kopnisien
Sensei
Karma: +9/-4
Posts: 369
Re: Ignore Pain
«
Reply #13 on:
August 05, 2007, 07:52:18 AM »
Quote from: Quinn the Mighty on July 30, 2007, 11:58:31 AM
Stuff we probably wont see;
* Jin based heal
* Complete Heal
* Targeted Heal
* % Based Healing ( I originally asked for this but, it got shot down)
How much more do y'all want to this? 30%, 50% more effectiveness?
Did they say why a % based heal got shot down? Let's assume the % would be 25% of your health. Wouldn't this just be fair to players who have higher HP? Why should you be punished in terms of ability effectiveness just for having a larger pool of hit points?
I'll repeat my personal opinion yet again, I don't want to see Vit in the equation. We're
not
a hybrid of any kind, unlike bards, rangers, dread knights, paladins and druids. If they get a heal, it SHOULD be based on Vit, because they're a mix of (the D&D classes) rogue/sorcerer(bard), fighter/druid (ranger), fighter/warlock (DK) ,fighter/cleric (pally) and, in this game druid/elementalist (druid). We're pure melee, so we shouldn't need spell damage focus, spell crit focus, healing focus and healing crit focus, damnit.
I would agree with one of two solutions: fixed number without VIT in the calculation, or a %-based heal.
Logged
Khana Kopnisien /\ 50 Dragon Monk /\ Lowland Elites /\ Halgar
Quinn the Mighty
Monk Lead
Kyoshi
Sensei
Karma: +50/-38
Posts: 443
Re: Ignore Pain
«
Reply #14 on:
August 06, 2007, 10:42:57 AM »
Khana,
The reasoning behind not converting it to a % based heal was that they were going to "tweak" it and not completely revamp it.
Don't get me wrong, If we can say the new version of the ability still just isn't working even with the improvements to it then the community can push to have it go another direction.
~QTM
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