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Vanguard Monks  |  Monk Discussion  |  Monk General  |  Quinn: Any info you can give us on status of the monks/plans etc. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Quinn: Any info you can give us on status of the monks/plans etc.  (Read 3096 times)
Quinn the Mighty
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« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2007, 08:29:33 AM »

Actually, since a dev doesn't actively play (as far as I know anywho) a monk they go with the design doc and are working / tweaking around our feedback. So Leishiu, I'd have to answer it's going to seem like a 3rd round of tweaking to you.

Using the ever popular monk target of the ranger we see the ranger had dev influinces since it's inception in beta. We only had other beta testers trying to guide them unless something was obviously overpowered. You can see that in the current version of the ranger it has:

  • Several different stances specific to each aspect of thier abilities (ranged, melee, defensive)
  • Hidden Chains
  • A more "complete" list of abilities Ranged, Melee, and Magical. ( I do realize that some of this is bugged but hey they are at least in the game)

I think we still need to be fleshed out a significantly more while incorporating what the more "complete" classes have and couple that with a Kojani "feel". The monk will need to evolve more.

~QTM




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Leishiu
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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2007, 09:41:14 AM »

Some tweaks have been in the right direction, undeniably. Not really enough though.
While I'm sure Dragon Breath could be quite devastating with 900 int and 500 spell damage focus, you really will not see a monk with that; thus putting it around 1000 damage each 10 minutes for a pinnacle power just proves how detatched monk developer(s) is from the workings of the class.
We have Wave Hand in Cloud, which deals less damage now at level 50 than it did when it was only one rank at level 26... It's still unspeakably useless as I've presented in another thread or two despite the impossible increase in power by reducing reuse timer slightly. Perhaps not as clear good on paper, useless in reality as Dragon Breath, but followup.
Not only this; our skills were not even in the live damage system until they got broken where they were returned to approximitly old damage values (granted, some abilities like thousand fists gained on this, but others lost some). From what I understood, this change was intended to be a placeholder until new and better values (to scale our damage) could be figured out. It remains largely untouched and while monk damage with higher gear and weaponry at 50 is decent; it dosen't scale well on the way up there and other classes still boost off. Where is the three-four days of work that could retune our skills from the OOOPS state to at least a proper live state?
You could argue the lethality of melee AoE's for the ability to chain 2 dots for nice experience; but after introducing the rangers arrow AoE (even though it got capped) that bears no real relevance for melee classes... Yet, all the feedback concerning just those abilities have fallen on deaf ears or possibly gotten so small upgrades it's not making a diffrence.
After several months of complaining, it appears finally though that Jin based buffs could actually have a decent duration - perhaps the realisation that other classes buffs cost quite close to zero mana; and that our self-buffs in general are worse than those we could get from other classes.
Perhaps we should feedback to have large portions of int and spell damage on our class specific abilities so we could work in accordance to the beta-3 document we still appear to be ruled by.
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Leishiu ~ Halgar (or sommert)
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« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2007, 11:48:40 AM »

I want to chim in on this discussion. This is my first post on the board so Ill introduce myself. I am a 35 Dragon monk. I have always played a monk, eq1, eq2, VG. No other class intrigues my the way a monk does. With that said, I am happy they are making some improvements to the class. However, I am alittle concern that there has be some bias in class development and no dev plays a monk. My idea of a monk and what I think the monk should be is a a$$ kicking machine, that has some unique skill(ex. FD, soaring leap, etc..). To be honest I feel that monks should out dmg rangers and bards without question. Yes, I know we are all offensive fighters but, those 2 classes provide more utility and have other skills that enhance there offensive abilty. Monks on the other hand should be the purest offensive fighter in the game, no backstabs, ranged attacks, or songs to add dmg. Just pure dmg. With the minor tweaks they are working on now, can someone provide the what they are hearing is the overall direction to the class? Plus, Quinn as the dps changes you mentioned earlier can do you have any insight into if it is monk specific or just a overall reevaluation?
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Quinn the Mighty
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« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2007, 12:40:44 PM »

I want to chim in on this discussion. This is my first post on the board so Ill introduce myself. I am a 35 Dragon monk. I have always played a monk, eq1, eq2, VG. No other class intrigues my the way a monk does. With that said, I am happy they are making some improvements to the class. However, I am alittle concern that there has be some bias in class development and no dev plays a monk. My idea of a monk and what I think the monk should be is a a$$ kicking machine, that has some unique skill(ex. FD, soaring leap, etc..). To be honest I feel that monks should out dmg rangers and bards without question. Yes, I know we are all offensive fighters but, those 2 classes provide more utility and have other skills that enhance there offensive abilty. Monks on the other hand should be the purest offensive fighter in the game, no backstabs, ranged attacks, or songs to add dmg. Just pure dmg. With the minor tweaks they are working on now, can someone provide the what they are hearing is the overall direction to the class? Plus, Quinn as the dps changes you mentioned earlier can do you have any insight into if it is monk specific or just a overall reevaluation?

Right now we are labled as the highest base DPS offensive fighter. This should mean we shouldnt have to work to get DPS. This is not going to change. (Read this as meaning we dont have any progressive forms or the need to stealth to put up big numbers DPS wise) In my personal expierience I am fidning this to be accurate. Although I do readily admit that there are cases where Rangers / Rogues close the gap real quick and in some cases just fly by me from the offset. Ranger's out of combat abilties immediately come to mind. (I am not a proponent of crit shot.)

I also don't think our damage is not scaling properly as we level up. Sure, at the end I think we ultimately get where we were meant to but the journey needs a tweak  or two.

On a final note it's good to have a thread that makes people register and participate.

~QTM
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Xenophon
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« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2007, 05:00:16 PM »

Hey folks,

I've been a lurker on these boards for a while and I play a lvl 45 harmonious monk in game.  I'd like to comment on the damage scaling that Quinn mentioned in his above post.

I think that the damage scaling is probably our biggest issue right now.  From my personal experience, I'm able to do good damage in a group, when I'm buffed, etc.  However, I got a graystone bladestaff a few weeks ago and one thing I noticed was how little my dps increased.  The weapon I used beforehand was a Zank from CiS so I would think that my dps would go up significantly.  It went up, but not significantly.  I think the root of our damage scaling problems is that our skills barely take our weapons into account.  It would be nice if our skills were set up so that the bulk of our hit damage comes from a percentage of our weapon or autoattack damage.  I think our barefists should be our static baseline (equivolent to setting skills to static damage values), and weapons can either cause it to go up or down based on the quality of the weapon.  In any case, it doesn't seem right that after getting large weapon upgrades, we still do similar damage.

Another idea I had, just as an interesting concept, was to remove weapon damage from fist wraps and have them add a percentage of our barefist damage again, as well as stats, instead.  As we level up and our fists increase in power, our fistwraps will scale and reflect that increase.
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Khana Kopnisien
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« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2007, 09:22:26 PM »

Xeno's post had me wondering. I thought about it long and hard, but couldn't find an answer to the following question: what the hell does "melee damage + X" mean anyway? What is "melee damage" based on? What does it take into account, what doesn't it? Does raising STR help for this specific number? Does changing weapons? Does it just scaled with level, based on our unarmed damage (which I'm guessing is happening)?

Nice idea on the H2H weapons improving upon unarmed damage btw, Xeno ! Perhaps just a colouring of the DPS numbers comparing to unarmed damage could be a nice start - I'm thinking red for below unarmed damage, white for about equal and green for higher than unarmed damage. At least we'd be able to compare weapons to our level-based damage on the fly.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2007, 09:25:34 PM by Khana Kopnisien » Logged

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Quinn the Mighty
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« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2007, 07:18:53 AM »

Quote
Xeno's post had me wondering. I thought about it long and hard, but couldn't find an answer to the following question: what the hell does "melee damage + X" mean anyway? What is "melee damage" based on? What does it take into account, what doesn't it? Does raising STR help for this specific number? Does changing weapons? Does it just scaled with level, based on our unarmed damage (which I'm guessing is happening)?

Those skill are essentially = (weapon damage + strength mod) + X
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LeadFoot
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« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2007, 07:43:59 AM »

I think part of the reason you do not see your DPS going up significantly is that our kicks are not affected by weapon damage.  Other than getting gear with %dmg modifier, there is no way to improve that damage.  I would love to see something added to game, maybe a shoe of some sort that would allow us to increase that damage. 

As for our dps, I think we are still behind where we need to be.  I was waiting for this huge boost at lvl50, but have not seen it.  Aum Kor definitely helps.  I am duel wielding Torch Bearers, and it still does not seem like I keep up with a ranger less equipped even in the beginning of fights.  I also find it disturbing that I can get owned by the named mobs in Thelassen.  By lvl50, you would think I should be able to solo those without burning all of my specials.
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Khana Kopnisien
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« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2007, 03:54:37 PM »

I also find it disturbing that I can get owned by the named mobs in Thelassen.  By lvl50, you would think I should be able to solo those without burning all of my specials.

That's because in my experience, mob level vs your level doesn't modify your mitigation value.
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Khana Kopnisien  /\  50 Dragon Monk  /\  Lowland Elites  /\  Halgar
Yoshimura Mohashimu
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« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2007, 04:07:17 PM »

Quote
I think part of the reason you do not see your DPS going up significantly is that our kicks are not affected by weapon damage.  Other than getting gear with %dmg modifier, there is no way to improve that damage.  I would love to see something added to game, maybe a shoe of some sort that would allow us to increase that damage.

QTM - have you heard anything about this age old problem possibly getting fixed?




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Yoshimura Mohashimu
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Quinn the Mighty
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« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2007, 09:58:15 AM »

I don't have any recent notes on this particular issue as the problem is more end game related. I do have a mention that eventually there will be some gear that will have a kick mod to it and eventual AA devoted to this. I don't have specifics or a time table regarding this though.

~QTM
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skyfoxx
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« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2007, 11:31:22 AM »

the Pauldrons I believe from celestine ward add to kick..I can't remember exactly but if I recall it was the pauldrons, I had the full set so I know it was the t3, just can't put my finger on which
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Panthor
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« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2007, 12:46:09 PM »

Quick Question, Did I read on this board that Special Attacks interupt your normal melee? The reason I ask, if it does is that an issue or how it is suposse to be?
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Khana Kopnisien
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« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2007, 01:17:24 PM »

the Pauldrons I believe from celestine ward add to kick..I can't remember exactly but if I recall it was the pauldrons, I had the full set so I know it was the t3, just can't put my finger on which
It's the legs if I'm not mistaken. Just as rare, though Smiley
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Quinn the Mighty
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« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2007, 06:45:07 AM »

Quick Question, Did I read on this board that Special Attacks interupt your normal melee? The reason I ask, if it does is that an issue or how it is suposse to be?

Using a special attack resets your auto attack timer. If you use hand to hand weapons and get your delay below 2 that won't be an issue as you will get your auto attack in between special moves. For all other weapons that is the case.

~QTM
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