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Author Topic: Teenage experience  (Read 1054 times)
Khana Kopnisien
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« on: May 08, 2007, 04:22:42 AM »

I, formerly a 36 Dragon Monk, found myself in a position of:
a) tanking most of the time
b) being the highest level char in my guild
c) being invited very infrequently by groups, them preferring any other DPS class over monks.
 
and thus, I rolled up a DK to level as a tanking character. I'm currently in my early teens (14) and have to say I'm enjoying myself on the one side. The only things I miss are FD, Aum Liat and Soaring Leap.
I do have a few comments, though. First of all, the amount of damage a DK can do is downright ridiculous. To me, there should be an apparent difference in damage between light and heavy fighters. If it's there, I'm not seeing it. Maybe it's the low levels talking. I do remember it taking about 8 buttons on my monk at similar level to kill an even con 2-dot, while it takes about 4 to 6 on my DK
Second..utility. My DK already has fear, snare, STR/VIT debuff, blocking moves and a self heal. And he can take damage like a champ.

If the DK is the intended power level of a class, then obviously the Monk is severely lacking in all departments. We can't self heal as often as a DK (Harrow & Shadow Step, every 15 secs for 200% weapon damage), we can't hold aggro as well, we can't take hits as well and we don't dish out that much more damage.

I guess what several monk colleagues on these boards have been saying is true: you don't smell the pile of cow's dungs until you play a stablehand.  Huh?
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Khana Kopnisien  /\  50 Dragon Monk  /\  Lowland Elites  /\  Halgar
Ryoku
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« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2007, 06:44:41 AM »

I have a 32 DK right now the same level as my monk and I feel like I can outdamage my monk regularly while providing a hell of a lot more utility.

I've said this like a month ago. Monks still suck. Monks still need a lot of work. Are things really going to change? Who knows.

Monk base damage needs to go up a good 10-20% before the class, if DPS is its primary niche, really even works. Right now Monks do not offer enough utility in justification for the amount of damage they do. They should either have more utility than they do now OR do more damage. Pick one, Sigil.

Light Fighters in general outside of the bard are still the most useless classes in game. The disparity between light and defensive fighters damage wise should be drastic and if you look at actual numbers, they're really not.

But then again, Sigil has created a game where every class is capable of DPSing so I don't even really know how to fix that... idiot2
« Last Edit: May 08, 2007, 06:46:22 AM by Ryoku » Logged

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Ryoku
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« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2007, 06:48:44 AM »

And what I'm getting at is that it may not just be the Monk, it seems almost like it's more of the current combat system in general than anything else. Monks are still the bottom rung, but the problem is compounded BY the fact that most classes can offer significant damage to a group. It makes us that much less desirable when you're competing against HOW MANY classes for a spot in group doing DPS?
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Leishiu
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« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2007, 09:37:29 AM »

Monk damage does take a step up at 50 along with some decent weaponry; while you could wish for a more even, thought-through (ie, updated from it's "oh SNARF"-state after LU#1) and non-broken damage output (dragon breath for example) it's still decent enough.
However, the road to 50 is paved with gravel, and a class shouldn't start to bloom on it's last level.
With the accessories of weapon purchases availible currently, light fighters will fall a bit behind on the early levels (even though I am playing a rogue in wait for some content now and then, I'll have to disagree with the statement that light fighters suck, without any really large investment I'm quite capable of plowing through content and 2 shotting 3 dots, or killing 2 dots at a very high pace - and that's from a class that's supposed to be bad at soloing.) At higher levels when the "twinking" isn't as obvious and abilities have spaced out (the higher level, the less chance of suddenly "blooming" by getting a new superb abilitiy or falling behind because skills are getting badly outdated) you'll have to try hard to be outdamaged by a defensive melee.

Reason in my opinion? Abilities haven't been polished since the "oh-SNARF" period after LU#1, and thus are not really in balance with other classes performance (which was already pointed out before the update). Monk ability list is quite rocky as it is and have to many BANG!s (where you get a lot of fancy abilities) followed by quite a few dead levels instead of a more steady progress.
We also don't really recieve the amout of abilities that other classes do due to our specialization, if this is good or bad I'm not sure (some classes are just plain excessive) but we could for sure use some more varied utility which gets creativly and naturally intervowen into the playstyle.
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Leishiu ~ Halgar (or sommert)
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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2007, 10:04:03 AM »

If they would fix feign death (the mobs sprinting back as well as the high amount of fails versus higher level mobs) and up our dps a bit I think the monk would be fine.  But take a look in Silkyvenom at the posts about server population.  Monks are now the least or second least played class, just ahead of disciples in some instances, by a fairly wide margin.  There is a reason for this, people realize how much they truly suck and how boring they are as is.

I'm really enjoying my bard and as it stands now my monk will probably stay at 44 for quite a while, only to be pulled out to get my bard some gear!  My bard dps is right on par where my monk was and groups almost beg for bards, for pulling as well as all around one of the best grouping classes.  And I can solo as well!

Minor point as well, from a DK friend of mine, she says that they really come into their own post 30.  I've watched her tank 4dots that my rogue friend and I wouldn't dream of duoing.
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Ryoku
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« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2007, 10:19:24 AM »

Excellent post, Leishiu.

Really what it comes down to is if you're willing to suffer through the still beta-esque calibur of class balancing (you're telling me broken stances 3 months into release isn't a problem that should've been eliminated in beta?)  that's going on right now. I'm currently unwilling to do that, but that's merely me. There is still a high level of class systems that need to be rethought and redone if Sigil/SOE has any intention of creating a balanced game and some of the issues/imbalances in my opinion are atrociously mind boggling.

I may come off as harsh, but I've never seen a game outside of SWG at launch with such a tremendous disparity in terms of power between its classes and archetypes. If you can cast spells, you're pretty much a god. And if you're a defensive melee, you can tank AND do excellent damage. If you're a Bard, people bow before you. If you're a Ranjuh, you get l33t DPS/buffs/utility and evasion on par with a monk. If you're a Monk, you can do some cool and intimidating kung fu while waiting for your class to blossom at ... 50 Huh?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2007, 10:26:07 AM by Ryoku » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2007, 03:09:17 PM »

Can't say that i'm usually outdamaged by a DK. Usually if i'm grouping with a DK who isn't tanking, the mob is either on the TANK, myself, or the caster. I also frequently pull hate off DK tanks my same level. They do a lot of damage for a defensive class and are definitely a better all around class, but I have my doubts that they outdamage a well equipped monk with his stats in the right place on a regular basis.
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Ikky Ikaloa
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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2007, 04:18:18 PM »

Interesting a few of us seemed to pick the DK as a alternative to the Monk until the class gets fixed. I enjoy my DK she can solo like a champ lvl 14 killing yellow 3 dots. Plus I'm an armor smith with her and I plan to make my monk armor with her. I find Monks tend to do a lot better with the best armor much more gear dependent of a class. I could hardly stand to play my monk until my guild started handing down some crafted and adventure gear. Even with the gear my monk wouldn't dream of trying to take on what my DK does.
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Soluss
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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2007, 05:54:55 PM »

but I have my doubts that they outdamage a well equipped monk with his stats in the right place on a regular basis.

This line says it all right there.  You shouldnt need to be better equiped then a defensive fighter to out damage him.
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Apoco
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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2007, 09:42:55 PM »

To put another note to backup soluss kinda. 

I am a 50 Dragon Monk Currently (switch all the time, drunken at heart), with all heroics level 50+, all lucent heroic rewards (2 rings, 2 earrings, face, cloak), Afrit weapon quest completed, and the 72 DPS handwraps from Rhaz.  I get out damaged by DK's of comparable (and worse) gear, hands down.  Currently, my guild is not even considering DK's as tanks as their DPS/Utility is far superior than them tanking. 
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Dena
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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2007, 09:52:05 PM »

Yeah, I've been trying to tell that to people about how uber DK's are.
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