I know that some of you don't care about PVP since you don't play on PVP servers, but I assure you, if you think Monks are bad in PVE, they're 10x worse in PVP.  To be honest, the main problem is NOT our damage.  Though subpar, it is not what is holding us back.

The fact that nearly every other class can slow you and kite you and our inability to do anything about it is what is going to keep us back permanently.  "But Riot, we have Storm Stride!"  Indeed we do, optimists!  However, if you don't have any Jin when you get attacked you are completely and utterly screwed.  I don't know about you, but I don't often get attacked when I'm in a group and constantly have Jin, but only when I'm walking around town with no Jin built up.  And even if you DO get a Storm Stride off, you'll likely still be slowed when you teleport to the enemy.  You'll only be able to get in 1 hit and the target will have already moved away to continue kiting you.  If Storm Stride does indeed break your slow (which I'm pretty sure it doesn't) then the opponent can simply re-slow you and continue kiting you. 

I propose that Storm Stride be changed from Jin to Endurance so that it is actually worth using if we get in trouble.  There is no way I can get any Jin at all to use the skill if I get rooted, as all the Jin-giving abilities require melee hits up close.  This is from a Dragon Style monk's perspective mind you, not Harmonious so we don't have Jin-restoring stances or anything.  Storm Stride is really just another of MANY skills that I don't use because there is no point in it.  If the skill isn't changed to Endurance, we need some type of ability that automatically gives us a small amount of Jin, such as:

Inner Burst:  Accumulates 3 Jin automatically.  Cooldown 2 min / 5 min. 

The other thing, probably more important, is the fact that like I said, nearly every other class gets some kind of stun/root.  Our roles as Monks are to use brute force to break the opponent's body, no?  Then why is it logical that WE do not get a root ability, like a Hamstring?  We need to be able to keep people in Melee range in order to have a CHANCE to be successful, but we have no chance to do this whatsoever.  Yet, like I said, pretty much every other class has an ability to slow or completely stun their target.  I really push for a slowing ability.  If we could Storm Stride + Slow, we'd have a lot more chance in PVP.  I just don't see the reason why us, a class (that's supposed to be, but currently is not) devoted entirely to either totally destroying our opponent or debuffing our opponent can't do a staple ability that is necessary for our success while so many other classes can.

As of right now, we do not have a chance against pretty much any other class in PVP.  We NEED a slowing ability and a way to use Storm Stride when it actually matters (I've NEVER used in PVE because there is really no point) or else no amount of DPS-tweaking will ever matter. 

I play on a PvP server as well and yes monks have it rough.  Two things I recommend: train shuriken skill up, and hot key Soaring Leap to a keyboard button for ease of use.  SL movement is not effected by snares  9-)

Does for me...Ive ran from bards that were chasing me while snared (when they were much higher then me) and chased people down while throwing shurikens while snared.  Wish we had some sort of cleansing skill tho

<shrug>

Had some massive melee the other day in Eladin.  Right near the alter.  Went on for almost an hour.  Died only once and once we got the upper hand, it was a continued masacere.   

I'm sick of hearing from my guild and other people that since I enjoy PVP I "rolled the wrong class for PVP."   There shouldn't BE a wrong class for PVP.  The classes should be balanced enough that everyone has a chance and everyone is good at something.  Don't give me that crap about "PVP isn't important, this is a PVE game" because the PVP servers are pretty much the most popular servers and a large playerbase expects PVP.  You can balance PVP without affecting PVE, we've seen it done already so that argument falls short too.

Simply put, we NEED a slow or a way to break stun/root, or a way to instantly recover Jin.  I don't think that's too much to ask for and I think any Monk on a PVP server would agree that we will continue to die without much chance unless we have these things.

I have long lost the believe that you can make a pve game with a pvp aspect. You either need to create a pve game or a pvp game and both from the ground up.

Besides class and level based PvP will always be hard to balance and unfair.

Long post, boredom alert:

It is my experience, after having played several MMOs over the years, that melee classes are by nature inferior to a casting/healing class pvp-wise. The fundameltal idea of a casting class simply doesn't allow for balance between them and melee classes, and let me explain why: Every casting class, no matter the game will be 1) able to deal lots and lots of damage over a distance, and 2) very fragile and unable to do much, if any, damage in close quarters. This poses a problem, because casters will complain that they are totally screwed if someone gets close to them, a somewhat fair claim. Hence, the casters will be given some abilities that will allow them to keep the enemy at a distance or in other ways avoid being chopped down as soon as someone gets close.

Then we have melee classes, the concept of which being that they walk up to an enemy and hit it 'till it dies. This style of combat is completely opposite to, and uncombinable with, the aforementioned casters, and every fight between the two will be decided on how many hits the melee class can take and how many tricks the caster has to keep the enemy at a distance. Plainly speaking, if the caster is able to keep the warrior away for 1 minute and the warrior can take the caster's hits for that time without dying, then the caster is dead. If he can't, then he's toast.

My point is, that either way, the match won't be considered a "close call" because the caster will either die or stand in the end will full HP, and no matter the outcome, the loser will claim that his class is underpowered and request that changes be made to either his class or that of his opponent.

My conclusion is, that melee classes and caster classes simply aren't meant to be in the same game where pvp is concerned.

Kyomi hit the nail on the head when saying that pvp and pve just isn't compatible; Pve needs caster, as well as tanks. This is also a fundemental fact about MMOs, and thus is contradicts my postulate that casters and melee classes in the same game is a bad idea. My 2 cents, and thank you for reading, if indeed you did ;p

Yeah I played a warrior in wow too, and cound beat casters :} What I said was that it pretty much came down to the amount of "catch-up" or "get-away" abilities that the combatants posessed, not that casters always won

I'll try to explain my theory (and keep in mind that it is a theory and personal opinion) more simply: the caster is a class that needs to get away from the enemy; the meleer is a class that needs to get close to the enemy. No matter how you put thisd, the game designers can only satiate one of these needs, for if casters find that they have 2 abilities to get away from someone whereas the melee classes have 3 abilities that take them close, the caster will always lose, and vice versa.

To take WoW as a refference, mages vs. warriors would usually be something like... Charge, hamstring, followed by blink and sheep, unless ofc the warrior could intercept before sheep was completed. Most smart mages would use PoM on their sheep though to prevent that from happening. After that the mage would wait for their cooldowns to end and then start to own you, having more toys that keep the warrior away that the warrior has stuff that gets him close.

And no, I never could beat a mage who knew how to play