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Vanguard Monks  |  Monk Discussion  |  Monk General  |  Something I want to understand « previous next »
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Author Topic: Something I want to understand  (Read 1369 times)
SOggyGravy
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« on: April 18, 2007, 11:20:56 AM »

I have been lurking here for a long time now and I simply just don't understand because it seems like we have contact with the people involved in development for Vanguard yet people are not happy with the changes.  Can someone explain in this post what the DEVLOPERS are thinking and what they want to do with our class, I don't think anyone would be even nearly as upset if they simply understood where the Developers are going with their changes or at least why they are choosing to do it the way they are?

I appreciate any feedback to this regard and keep up the good work monk community you guys are truly a boon to our cause.
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Ninbei
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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2007, 11:32:43 AM »

We've asked for Dev comments on the direction Monks are going but so far we've only got silence.

I agree with you that if a Dev would post Sigil's intentions for the monk class it would save the community ALOT of grief and time - those who do not agree with Sigil's vision for the monk can reroll/cancel right away instead of patiently waiting for changes that would never come.
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SOggyGravy
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2007, 11:38:02 AM »

I am not sure how the developer interaction works I have seen people like Quinn speak with them on numerous occasions.  I know enough about business and customer interaction to know that even if something doesn't work, if the customer is told it is getting fixed or at least is able to understand the thought process of the company they are very often able to overlook A LOT of issues with the knowledge that the company is aware of what is going on and has certain intentions.

So to whoever is in charge of this crazy place a brief developers post or remark or response simply stating intentions is all we ask, this is about as minimal of a requirement a community of paying consumers can ask for.  Lets break down all the communication barriers and solve 90% of the issues on this board with this response (and all that is required is for them to be like yeah we are changing things slowly for THIS reason or yeah we intend the monk to be like THIS)

I hope my post is clear and if it is not feel free to help explain my intentions because I feel every member of this community is on the same wavelength.

-Cheers
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Soluss
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2007, 12:07:47 PM »

They cant talk about the direction of the monk ...if they spilled the beans of how gimp they plan to keep us they 100 or so monks that are leftover will cancel or reroll too.  They cant buff us too much because then the ranger community would be in an uproar and cant have the prodigy class mad.
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Fusoya
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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2007, 12:30:42 PM »

QTM talks to the dev's (tali mostly), a plan is agreed apon, then somewhere between that convo and the patch....all hell breaks loose and the monk is born. Sigil is proving to have some of the worst intra-company communication the MMO business has come to see.

Honestly I'd like to see a list of people who have been fired by Sigil since the start of creation....is it possible to get fired by Sigil? Is Sigil hiring?
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SOggyGravy
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2007, 02:27:19 PM »

I realize its easy to bash Sigil and in fact anyone involved in the monk creation however I want to have solutions or at least resolution to this whole dilemma...Quinn a post here would be appreciated in regards to a plan to get this answered.
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jpo
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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2007, 07:26:46 PM »

We've asked for Dev comments on the direction Monks are going but so far we've only got silence.

I agree with you that if a Dev would post Sigil's intentions for the monk class it would save the community ALOT of grief and time - those who do not agree with Sigil's vision for the monk can reroll/cancel right away instead of patiently waiting for changes that would never come.

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here...but it sounds to me like you want Sigil to tell you how to play your monk.  They're not going to tell you what the "intentions" of the class are...we are to figure that stuff out on our own.

Sigil won't play "spoiler" to their own game by telling you what their vison is...that's for us to figure out.  That's what they told us in beta.


All I can say is that if the monk in this game doesn't play the way you want it to...re-roll.

I'm playing just fine and having a blast. 
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Gulgash
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« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2007, 07:57:39 PM »

Dunno how to quote, so...

I don't think Ninbei sounded at all as if he'd like Sigil to hold his hand, or give us "spoilers" about the monk class.  I think he voices the desire to have the developers what roles they expect the monk to fill. 

Do they want us to be able to split-pull with Feign Death?  It doesn't appear so; I'm pretty sure they don't.  Do they want us to be able to "off tank"?  At one point, that was something they'd talked about; some remnants of that idea still remain, but the idea itself seems to have been shelved. 

There are so many things that seem counterintuitive in the way they have our stances/skills set up, that it almost begs the question of what their "vision" of a monk's role in Vanguard is.
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Leishiu
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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2007, 02:55:27 AM »

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here...but it sounds to me like you want Sigil to tell you how to play your monk.  They're not going to tell you what the "intentions" of the class are...we are to figure that stuff out on our own.

Sigil won't play "spoiler" to their own game by telling you what their vison is...that's for us to figure out.  That's what they told us in beta.

Figure out what? The monk is in it's basic concept very easy to master, because there's not really much variations. We have one thing that requires some dedication to figure out, that's Feign Death, but it works on the same pricinciple as sneak (ie: if mob level > your level, make sure to go behind it!); ie once you've figured it out, you can replicate it to worlds end. What's harder to figure out why the Dragon style "masters of AoE damage" are masters of nothing (or if AoE damage is even creditable for melee anymore, considering a very early fix for melee AoE damage) at the moment. Or why we have a vast sea of defensive abilities which mostly assume we're getting hit when we have the games best agro control and are intended to be offensive (once again, we had a decent defensive focus at relase, but our abilities never followed the tuning for less evasion) - and this isn't only touching Drunk, both Dragon and Harmonious have abilities which resolve around the monk being hit. To increase solo? Not really - they have to long reuses/potency for that. In the end, each style revolve around single digit amout of abilities (if you include a full chain as one) because the others simply are worse at doing their job - or simply surpassed by another ability, is this also intended?

Quote
I'm playing just fine and having a blast. 

If I didn't enjoy playing a monk, I wouldn't do it, I don't think that's the question though.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2007, 03:01:41 AM by Leishiu » Logged

Leishiu ~ Halgar (or sommert)
Ninbei
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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2007, 09:04:28 AM »

All I can say is that if the monk in this game doesn't play the way you want it to...re-roll.

I'm playing just fine and having a blast. 

There is a huge difference in "the game / class doesnt play the way >> I << want" and "the game / class doesnt play the way I was lead to believe".  I dont want Sigil to hold my hand and tell me how I should play my game, but when my class isn't exactly doing what Sigil lead us to believe what we're supposedly capable of doing, something is wrong.  This is why many of us would really like Sigil to comment on what's their vision of the monk class - we as a community can provide much better feedback on if our play experience closely matches their "vision".

For example, Sigil has stated in the past that Monks should deal more damage up front than a Ranger in the first 20seconds of a fight.  Our play experience doesnt exactly hold up to that vision even now, does it?  Are you suggesting that we should just suck it up like a grown man instead of whining like a sissy?  Remember without many of our rants the devs would probably still think monks are badass and doesnt need fixing.

How about the countless number of Dragon monks who, based on the dragon grandmaster's words, that the dragon discipline focuses on nothing but "efficient killing", leading them to believe that dragon is the pure DPS discipline out of the 3?  What a joke it turns out when Dragons find out that Sigil's idea of "efficient killing" means dealing meager AOE damage at half your endurance bar a pop. 

How about the countless number of Drunken monks who, based on the drunken grandmaster's words, that the discipline is pure evasion focused? I forgot what the grandmaster said exactly, but i remember something about "they cant harm you if they can't hit you!!"  What a surprise for drunkens to find out that their skillset is almost exactly the opposite, giving them taunts (which gets them hit) while others get more attacks, AND that their evasion stance is beyond a joke!!

If my class doesnt turn out to be what I want it to be, I accept it, because i know what I want of the monk class will never be implemented ( I want Kungfu Hussle style! Or at least gimme crouching tiger...)
But the problem is my class doesnt turn out to what I was LEAD TO BELIEVE!!



Having said all that, I'm still having a blast playing my Harmi monk too!! I just hope that the other two disciplines get serious upgrades because even after the stance changes I still find no reason to switch and I'm tired of being Harmi already! Sigil please give me reason to switch (but dont nerf harmonious please).
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Shengyi Tsung
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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2007, 09:55:46 AM »

OK, imo all those saying they don't want sigil to give us spoilers, here is what you have to logically conclude that sigil wants the monk to be from what we've seen so far:

One of the lowest DPS classes. (IF NOT THE FRICKING LOWEST)
No utility.
No great tanking ability.
No great soloing ability.
Only do good damage in groups (but then again, who the HELL doesn't)

So basically the monk is a do nothing class atm with mediocre DPS potential in a group and THATS IT.  Sigil's version of a monk is simply a mediocre LACKLUSTER do NOTHING DPS class who can only survive SOMETIMES with a crappy FD and they can only pull if you trick the AI. 

No......  This is not how ANY class should play.  This is now how ANY customer should be treated.  This my friends, is the worst i have ever seen any MMO be handled.  I'm serious, we're boring on SWG crap right now.
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Teno
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« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2007, 09:56:08 AM »

Quote
Monks are masterful martial combatants with the ability to chain their martial attacks together in a wide variety of ways to accomplish certain tasks. They can learn combat disciplines which alter their attacks in powerful ways, allowing them to strike with fists of fire, assume a stance that greatly increases their armor class and even teleport to and attack an opponent before he is even aware of the Monks presence.

Thats Sigil's main description of the monk, though not the same description as it was when the game first launched.
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Kyomi
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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2007, 03:40:23 PM »

Quote
How about the countless number of Dragon monks who, based on the dragon grandmaster's words, that the dragon discipline focuses on nothing but "efficient killing", leading them to believe that dragon is the pure DPS discipline out of the 3?  What a joke it turns out when Dragons find out that Sigil's idea of "efficient killing" means dealing meager AOE damage at half your endurance bar a pop.

Amen
« Last Edit: April 21, 2007, 12:21:53 AM by Kyomi » Logged



Level 50 Dragon Monk - Infineum
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Ikky Ikaloa
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« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2007, 06:52:24 PM »

I too would like an answer to this. As of right now I'm playing a DK because I have no clue what direction my monk is headed in.
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Beatlejuice
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2007, 03:03:41 AM »

I am not sure how the developer interaction works I have seen people like Quinn speak with them on numerous occasions.  I know enough about business and customer interaction to know that even if something doesn't work, if the customer is told it is getting fixed or at least is able to understand the thought process of the company they are very often able to overlook A LOT of issues with the knowledge that the company is aware of what is going on and has certain intentions.

So to whoever is in charge of this crazy place a brief developers post or remark or response simply stating intentions is all we ask, this is about as minimal of a requirement a community of paying consumers can ask for.  Lets break down all the communication barriers and solve 90% of the issues on this board with this response (and all that is required is for them to be like yeah we are changing things slowly for THIS reason or yeah we intend the monk to be like THIS)

I hope my post is clear and if it is not feel free to help explain my intentions because I feel every member of this community is on the same wavelength.

-Cheers

SWG tried this method and didn't get alot of success as many didn't like what they had to say.  Right or wrong in their vision, people aren't going to like what they hear and they're buried in bad posts.  SWG required it from their rash actions but as of yet I don't see a reason to demand too much from the Dev's atm.  I think Q has us covered for the most part, good or bad.
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