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Vanguard Monks  |  Monk Discussion  |  Monk General  |  Stuff that got broke 4/18 patch « previous next »
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Author Topic: Stuff that got broke 4/18 patch  (Read 2856 times)
Sybrant
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« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2007, 04:57:19 PM »

Wow damage on Palm explodes the heart really does suck for having a 5 min recast :/

I have my doubts that it actually explodes the heart. It should be called "Palm slightly bruises the chest"
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Hanzou Masamori
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« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2007, 06:32:36 PM »

Yes... very much so. For the first time since Beta Im actually considering changing classes or simply changing games since I have pretty much exhausted my patience and understanding at this point. The positives from this patch:

*Ignore Pain - Heals for a much more respectable amount

*Secret of Celerity - An excellent change, this is one of our most powerful abilities, the reduced timer makes this ability feel much more "final" and the only thing I would change about this if I had the chance would be removing it from the global refresh as our other secrets are.

*Finisher Reuse - The unified 1 minute reuse on finisher timers makes AE's more useful as well as making the Gouging Dragonclaw/Sundering Dragonclaw Dragon Style finishing line a nice secondary means of DPS to the Thousand Fists line.

*Swaying Step - A great change! If this ability was useable while attacking it would make it all the more useful, but one cant complain with a timer removal.

The negatives from this patch, or as I like to call them "The changes that were almost cool":

*Palm Explodes the Heart - It was almost a step in the right direction with this line by gaining a reuse and a damage increase, unfortunately they didnt actually increase the damage enough to justify the timer. With a high level requirement and long reuse there has to be a reason to use this line over other finishers. This ability line should be dealing 6k to 8k BEFORE crits. It would be nice if each step in the line built 2 Jin as well, making it useful for building Jin every 5 minutes as well as dealing damage. This technique should be the epitome of everything a Monk has learned as a martial artist up to level 50, its something you SHOULD look forward to.

*Iron Hand - This ability increases your damage by a respectable amount and its one of the first techniques you learn as a Monk, and the recent change to duration make the ability less tedious to maintain. I still feel a 10 minute timer wouldve been more inline with the ability, Dragon Styles other Jin supplied buff "Sun Dragon's Corona" is on a 10 minute duration as well with a similier cost.

*Dragon Breath - A nice alternative to a Monk's reguler AE arsenal, since this one is based purely on Jin. The damage boost was definately needed and a positive change, but the ability still remains tied to a 10 minute reuse timer! With a 8 Jin cost to limit its use, this ability should have been moved down to a 30 second to 1 minute timer, allowing Dragon Master monks to supplement their reguler AEs which drain endurance with the Jin based one further solidifying their role as the AE style.

*Dragon Rakes Its Claws - This should be the defining AE of the Dragon Style, the increase in damage while respectable is not enough to make it as useful as the Whirling Storm AE all monks recieve. The increased endurance cost is managable, but the damage on this line should be increased a little bit more. The fact that it is a restricted AE and the Dragon Styles role should justify the increase.

*Cloud Dragon's Ruse - The old reuse of five minutes has been reduced making this ability available more often. But the ability itself is somewhat weak reguardless. The stun duration should be moved to a flat 5 seconds and the chance of a critical hit on the next special attack should be moved to 100 percent (from 30). That would easily justify a 2 minute timer and its weak damage, as you could open a very hard hitting chain with it.

*Dragon's Rage - Completely untouched by today's patch despite being a weak ability that functions much like the changed "Cloud Dragon's Ruse". This ability deals minor damage, but is useful because it will always critical, thus opening up chains, unfortunately that is pretty much the exact same thing that Cloud Dragon's Ruse does, yet this ability was not changed. This ability should of recieved a slight damage increase to make it more competitive in use to Cloud Dragon's Ruse and given a 2 minute timer, like its counterpart.

*Aum Liat - No other Aum that Monk's have are cursed with a penalty as Aum Liat is, it makes no sense. With our nerfed avoidance, this ability should have the endurance penalty removed to make it more in line with other Aum's. As it is, I will just click off the negative portion anytime I use this since the Dodge bonus barely does anything anyways, but the endurance penalty is a kick in the nuts. The Runspeed is always nice however.

*Secret of Fire/Ice - Despite the energy debacle you Devs almost got this one right, the increased duration is great on this line allowing you to keep up one of the two secrets pretty much the course of an entire solo fight, unfortunately you didnt increase the duration quite enough. The duration of the modified line SOULD of been 45 seconds if you were changing the reuse to 90 seconds, so that monks could still chain the Secret of Fire/Ice as they needed.

*Dragon Sweeps Its Tail - A Dragon Style only counter, an AE one at that. This is actually a nice little counter while AEing and your the center of attention because it will stun briefly- unfortunately the 1 minute reuse is quite limiting to its use, 30 seconds would be much more reasonable.

*Jin Surge - Our nice group based buff, this is a great ability, and the reuse is fair enough- unfortunately it is often wasted on autoattacks. This ability should be changed to only effect Special Abilities OR be changed to a 5 to 10 second duration buff which effects ALL attacks while active.

*Defensive Ability - This is a catch all function of the class to me, Monks should have the best general defensive capability of offensive fighters. It doesnt have to be amazing but our two abilities which could help us in that aspect are completely worthless currently. Reed in the Wind has changed for the worse- bigtime. It was overly nerfed and needs to be evaluated, pretty much everyone can agree this wasnt severely overpowering in reguards to other classes solo capability... but it indeed deserved some tuning to avoid abuse. This ability should of been attached to a more reasonable timer, somewhere in the range of 30 seconds so it could not be chained indefinately OR reduced in effectiveness if it were left timerless so it would not be overly effective while trying to stay "dodgey", a 25 point dodge bonus with no timer would of been fine for such a endurance heavy ability I would think. Iron Skin is another ability which should be evaluated at the same time, as it effects our ability to mitgate rather than avoid damage, a 10 minute timer seems a bit steep. This ability should of had its timer reduced to something more useable, a 2 minute reuse would make me entirely happy with this skill.

If all these things could be changed tomorrow or HELL if I knew these things were going to be fixed PERIOD I would be entirely happy with the class, and be more inclined to offer patience even if it took a month. But I havent seen one word from a developer with what they are trying to accomplish with the class. While I can see they are working on things I cant understand how they can make 2 steps forward and 3 steps backward with Monks seemingly every other patch, its getting tiring, and it honestly is feeling like no progress has been made at all when all is said and done.
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-Hanzou Masamori
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« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2007, 09:27:27 PM »

here's the deal as best i can tell.

Scenario A:
We have yet to have any real attention payed to us.  The devs LITERALLY haven't had the time to look at our class, or have neglected to do so in order to fix things more important.  We are just being strung along like a little dog on leash.  Until the devs acknowledge our class and the ridiculous issues we have (and they come to our forums and tell us as much and stay in constant communication) nothing will change.  They are not working on fixing us, they have not fixed us, they won't fix us until they come to us and say as much.  I thought the last post Talisker made was going to get the ball rolling, but it didn't.  Minor fixes, more issues.

Scenario B:
The devs are all total and complete morons who dont' know wtf they are doing and they don't know how to test classes to see how the issues stack up.  Some Rtard is sitting around playing only the monk and doesn't know how to compare classes and has no sense of balance or equality and therefore has no idea what our real issues are because he/she doesn't know how we compare to other classes. 

I doubt we are looking at a scenario B here.  The devs all seem like they have a lot of prior experience and knowledge about MMOs.  I think we are looking at a scenario A.  They are too busy to fix us, they will not fix us until they tell us the fixes are coming.  Really, all they need to do are fix the major issues and we'll be ok for awhile.   I guess are money isn't as good as ranger money   uglystupid2 uglystupid2
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Caniss
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« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2007, 03:10:51 AM »


I have my doubts that it actually explodes the heart. It should be called "Palm slightly bruises the chest"

lol Smiley Wait I guess I shouldnt laugh.. poor monks Sad
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Jaxinor
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« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2007, 11:53:08 AM »

Wow damage on Palm explodes the heart really does suck for having a 5 min recast :/

I'd suppose you'd know from nuking mobs ? :p

But yeah, it does.
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*Jaxinor thinks your kung fu is weak*
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