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Vanguard Monks  |  Monk Discussion  |  Monk General  |  What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love) « previous next »
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Author Topic: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)  (Read 4688 times)
Jaxinor
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« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2007, 03:50:20 AM »

I'm glad to see some monk changes finally.

However, many of these changes seem poorly thought out.  Some one mentioned it before, but some serious thought needs to be put into where each style should be going.  Tiger stance getting upgraded?  It's already the best offensive stance, and it's in the utility style.  A damage shield being added to a stance that gives you more evasion.  Monks aren't supposed to get hit...

Le sigh.
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Daremo
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« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2007, 05:40:37 AM »

Khana:

I checked the secrets tonight, and you're right, they were on a 20sec timer, and a 40sec reuse.  So there is no "down time" between secrets currently.

As to the "squishy" factor for casters...  remember, that casters never stand toe to toe for their soloing... they either kite/root, or they pet tank.  They shouldn't ever get hit when they're soloing 4dot mobs whereas we have to always solo.  Makes it even more dangerous for us, since a nasty crit can really throw things off a bit Tongue

And for the FD thing...  The situation I had in mind:  I'm in Pantheon with my group, and do a pull on Guardians, but things go bad with roamers, and I get 2 Guardians, and 2 beetles.  I FD to reset, only one of the Guardians "fails" (being the higher level) and camps me.  Group pulls him off me, or I stand up, and he comes solo.  All is good.

Now, new rules: Same pull, only when I FD, 1 Guardian continues to hit me, to the tune of over 800dmg a pop (I've got 1/2 Ridgefury and 1/2 Wardship armor, so fairly good).  It takes less than 5 hits to kill me...  Now remember, we've a 8sec reuse timer on FD, so it's going to take me that long to "pop and drop", and I can't just stand up and run because I've got other agro around me, and I'm less than 1/2 health at this point.  Basically, I'm going to die, and wait for a corpse pull/res and retry.  Same as a rogue or ranger would have to do, only they get sneak to help them pull.  Oh, and that was the BEST CASE SCENARIO as to the fix...  If they do what I'm afraid of, the failure is suppose to be for all mobs, and now all 4 are pounding on me...

Finally, the Iron Fist fix, as I said was a good start.  Our complaint is that virtually every other classes buffs are 1hr length.  What's the problem with making ours as well?  Having to remember to watch that 1min timed buff and reactivate when I'm busy using 7 other abilities in a fight is a bit annoying, and 1/2 the time I'll click on pull, and that's it.  Between managing my agro, watching "squishies" to off-tank if needed, watching my health, watching for roamers, clicking off the 8 attacks in the right order for maximum effect...  don't really need to worry about my one damage buff.
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Fusoya
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« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2007, 09:44:00 AM »

QTM...when you mentioned FD fail rates, that is current rates correct? It doesnt not seem they changing anything yet...they were just releasing our FD rates. 1-3 90% success, and 4+mobs 40% seems right where it is now. Also FD rank 3 is 0 sec refresh, but man does that global refresh seem like forever on some fails =p.
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Quinn the Mighty
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« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2007, 02:42:44 PM »

Yes those are the current base rates, I was not able to get the mods based on level however.

~QTM
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Jengfu
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« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2007, 04:24:56 PM »

is it possible to ask for deadly hand adder damage to be converted into a dot, for the duration of the debuff?
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LeadFoot
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« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2007, 05:06:38 PM »

It really disturbs me to see monks posting here that Harmonious monks need their stance nerfed.  Give me a break.  Do you really think that Tiger stance is better than the new Dragon offensive stance?  Come on.  I would rather my offensive stance gave me a mitigation penalty than an endurance penalty any day.  The description of Dragon is that it is a hard style that is focused on AoE attacks, not that it is king of dps.  I understand that your AoE attacks suck at the moment and I seriously hope that sigil fixes that issue, but stop calling for a nerf of Harmonious monks.  Harmonious is a softer style that focuses on debuffs, not AoE.  NO where does it say and whose dps shall be subpar to the uber dragon monk.  And for the record, most of the uber debuffs we get can't be used unless we get attacked.  and the ones we can use are on 2 minute timers, or last for 16 seconds and take a boat load of endurance especially in tiger stance.  I, just like you, still can't solo 3 dots either.  You act like we run around in Tiger stance killing 4 and 5 dot mobs without flinching.  Focus on your own style.
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Jengfu
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« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2007, 08:03:44 PM »

why nerf it? think about it, our dps still lacks compared to where we are suppose to be. so all monks need to be bumped. to a footing that would make us where we should be.
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Fusoya
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« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2007, 08:12:59 PM »

Don't nerf harmonious, buff the others. Simple.
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Jengfu
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« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2007, 10:54:33 AM »

oh QTM are you gonna find out if there any thing done to see if our dps is in line to where it should be?

on a side not that i just tought of, i dont know for others but personnaly when i go in dungeons 4dots + usely take some where 30s-1min to kill each. so i wonder how the devs tought of this 20second thing, how long befor rangers and rogues pass us in dps?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2007, 11:09:18 AM by Jengfu » Logged
Riot
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« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2007, 11:43:13 AM »

Posted by Shengyi on the equipment board:

I did semi "study" on weapon damage kind of and basically what i discovered is this:
Monk abilities don't seem to register the strength bonus but auto attack does (basically the weapons will hit for about the same using specials)

When i went from a 40DPS bladestaff and 40ish DPS martial staff to a 71 DPS bladestaff, i honestly noticed no major difference in how hard my abilities hit.  I was fighting skeletons in graystone so i was hitting harder than normal, but whether i used the 40 DPS martial staff, the 40 DPS bladestaff, or the 71 DPS bladestaff i still hit the mobs with thousand fists for between 7k-10k consistently with any of the three weapons.  This CLEARLY means something isn't working as intended, because when you nearly double the damage of your weapon (from 40 to 71) and you add about 24 strength, you should see a HUGE difference in your damage output, but sadly i did not.  When i parsed h2h weapons compared to my 2hand weapons, the 2handers usually parsed higher.  I have a 40DPS handwrap and a 37DPS handwrap and it felt like i was doing more damage, i was throwing numbers out all over the place, using secrests etc, but the parse said 2handers were doing more.


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This is the primary issue that needs to be addressed in my opinion.  Making our abilities take our weapon and strength more into consideration will clear up sooo many DPS issues and make our overall DPS go up to where it should be.  That way it will actually reward players for speccing into Strength or working hard for getting the Graystone staff for instance.... I got mine and was very very underwhelmed, as it does about the same damage as my 2 35/40 dps hand to hand weps. 
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||| Riot ||| Tharridon ||| 46 Dragon Monk ||| Guild: Alarius |||
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« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2007, 12:19:55 PM »

yeah i read that too riot, but i'm not so sure.

Maybe it's a higher level thing, but i notice the damage difference when i upgrade my weapons in my teens.. Maybe i'm just fooling myself? i don't know
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« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2007, 12:49:20 PM »

So I notice they added the Armor Chink weakness to Eagle Claw. Relatively minor request to other issues, but something that would be cool to check on... Quinn is there any chance you can check to see if they are considering adding more Weakness/Exploits to other Monk attacks, pretty much all monk styles base opening attacks (ones not tied to reuse at the least) should cause a weakness and exploit something. As per our original design we should be capable of creating the widest range of vulnerablities for others to exploit. Attacks off the top of my head that should have weakness/exploit that makes sense:

Feet of the Fire Dragon: Burning+, Vulnerable
Dragon Rakes its Claws: Flesh Rend+, Bleeding
Whirling Storm: Dazed+, Chilled

Also, stating the obvious but if they increased secret duration each to 45 sec at 90 sec reuse, it would make it more of an upgrade. Since currently you can chain secrets, under new timers you should be able to also. Nice work keeping us updated btw Quinn, much appreciated.
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Chunli
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« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2007, 02:31:10 PM »

Check how many of our skills use melee + xxx damage. Compare that with how many use xxx% weapon +xxx damage. When you upgrade weapons, but do not have skills that take into account actual weapon damage (your melee damage is a combination of a few things), your damage on skills will not seem to increase that much. At least that is how I understand it.
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Chunli (RETIRED)
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« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2007, 03:50:52 PM »

Posted by Shengyi on the equipment board:

I did semi "study" on weapon damage kind of and basically what i discovered is this:
Monk abilities don't seem to register the strength bonus but auto attack does (basically the weapons will hit for about the same using specials)

When i went from a 40DPS bladestaff and 40ish DPS martial staff to a 71 DPS bladestaff, i honestly noticed no major difference in how hard my abilities hit.  I was fighting skeletons in graystone so i was hitting harder than normal, but whether i used the 40 DPS martial staff, the 40 DPS bladestaff, or the 71 DPS bladestaff i still hit the mobs with thousand fists for between 7k-10k consistently with any of the three weapons.  This CLEARLY means something isn't working as intended, because when you nearly double the damage of your weapon (from 40 to 71) and you add about 24 strength, you should see a HUGE difference in your damage output, but sadly i did not.  When i parsed h2h weapons compared to my 2hand weapons, the 2handers usually parsed higher.  I have a 40DPS handwrap and a 37DPS handwrap and it felt like i was doing more damage, i was throwing numbers out all over the place, using secrests etc, but the parse said 2handers were doing more.


------

This is the primary issue that needs to be addressed in my opinion.  Making our abilities take our weapon and strength more into consideration will clear up sooo many DPS issues and make our overall DPS go up to where it should be.  That way it will actually reward players for speccing into Strength or working hard for getting the Graystone staff for instance.... I got mine and was very very underwhelmed, as it does about the same damage as my 2 35/40 dps hand to hand weps. 

post the exactly stats of ur weapon. dps is just the dmg u do per second maybe ur 70dps weapon is just much faster? i think the weapons base dmg counts for how high hit ur skills.
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Riot
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« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2007, 03:58:00 PM »

Um it's a slow 2hd. 

http://vg-en.curse-gaming.com/database/items/details/1391287/graystone-bladestaff-of-purification/

186-279 damage. 
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||| Riot ||| Tharridon ||| 46 Dragon Monk ||| Guild: Alarius |||
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