Vanguard Monks - What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

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Vanguard Monks | Monk Discussion | Monk General | What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

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Topic: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love) (Read 4680 times)

Quinn the Mighty

Monk Lead
Kyoshi
Sensei

Karma: +50/-38
Posts: 443

What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« on: April 12, 2007, 08:20:45 PM »

On test now 4/14

- Monk Lowered the mitigation penalty of the Storm Dragon Stances
- Monk Lowered the melee slow of the Stone Dragon Stances
- Monk Drunken Fist Stance has been altered. The damage bonus has been slightly increased, 5% parry chance and a mitigation penalty have been added. The increased hate generation has been removed.
- Monk Drunken Sway has been altered. Dodge and Parry are both increased. The overall dodge/parry chance has increased. While in this stance you will slap all who attack you, dealing minor damage
- Monk The refresh timer on Swaying Step has been removed.
- Monk Reed in the Wind has had the intended 2 minute a refresh timer added to it.
- Monk Tiger Stance has had its endurance penalty progressively lowered. When Legendary Tiger Stance is earned the penalty is 40%.
- Monk Stone Dragon Stance now adds the appropriate cold and fire rune (30, 40, 50%).

I have been working with Talisker our issues list. The following should hit test soon. (On Deck)

Monk – All steps in the Exploding Heart Technique have been increased in power significantly.
Monk – Added a 5 minute refresh timer to all steps of the Exploding Heart Technique
Monk – All finishing attacks that were previously 2 minutes are now 1 minute.
Monk – Reduced the Refresh timer on Secret of Celerity to 15 minutes.
Monk – Increased the power of Ignore Pain, with the most power being gained at the final version.
Monk – Iron Hand now lasts for 5 minutes and costs 5 Jin to activate.
Monk – Secret of Flame now lasts for 40 seconds, has a 90s refresh timer and has an increased chance to apply the DoT portion. The damage is clearly marked in the description.
Monk – Secret of Ice now lasts for 40 seconds, has a 90s refresh timer and has an increased chance to apply the stun portion. The damage is clearly marked in the description.
Monk – Errant Strikes can now be used every 15 minutes and lasts for 30 seconds.
Monk – Staggering Punch now deals 75% weapon damage plus an additional amount that increases over time…and thus it was that the clone wars came to an end.
Monk – The damage of Dragon’s Breath has been greatly increased.
Monk - Increased the damage of Divine Tsunami and Divine Avalanche to make a better, more gradual scale.
Monk – Increased the damage and the endurance cost of Dragon Rakes its Claw
Monk – Trapping Mantis Claw and Cloud Dragon’s Ruse have been lowered in refresh time to 2 minutes.
Monk – Lurching Fient has had a refresh of 2 minutes added to it. This was not the intended refresh.

Added on Fri the 13th "insert scarey slasher flick music here"

Monk – Deadly Adder Hand’s duration now scales to 32 seconds at the final version.
Monk – Eagle Claw’s duration now scales to 24 seconds at the final version.
Monk – Eagle Claw now causes the Armor Chink weakness.
Monk – Wave Hand in Cloud has been given new versions at level 38 and 50.
Monk – Lowered the Jin cost of Wave hand in Cloud to 6 and the refresh to 20 minutes.
Monk – The self buff portion of Withering Palm now lasts for 60 seconds.
Monk – Increased the damage of Withering Palm
Monk – The effects of North Wind Breaks the Trunk will now display damage numbers both above the head of the target and in combat text (to see open chat options for your combat tab and turn the Others’ Damage Success filter on)
Monk – Increased the damage of the effect of North Wind Breaks the Trunk.
Monk – The self buff portion of Steal the Wind now lasts for 5 minutes.

Also

Clearing up the FD issue as more investigation was done

Against 1, 2, and 3 bad guys you have a 90% chance to succeed FD (modded vs. opponent level)
4 or more bad guys you success drops under 50% (bad *meh*)
In cases where you have more than 3 mobs and that one hangs out is actually a FD failure but the 1st 3 succeed. (bug)

Thanks much Tali for all of the work over the past week on us!!!

Keep up the feedback

~QTM

edited as to keep confusion to a minimum regarding FD.


« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 10:08:51 PM by Quinn the Mighty »	Logged

Soluss

Sensei

Karma: +45/-59
Posts: 335

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2007, 09:02:01 PM »

I like some of the changes...sercrets, iron hand etc. I cannot comment on the dragon changes as I have never tried dragon form yet. I am a harm monk.

The FD changes however I will comment on. On paper they sound like trash and actually a nerf. Less then 50% chance on 4 dot mobs? Wtf is this they just took more of a group roll away from FD. It sounds to me like they are trying to make FD a solo skill only. Granted it may not be dependant on lvl of mobs with this change, but I am sorry 4 dot mobs is where FD needs to shine... Less then 50% chance you can pretty much say goodbye to dungeon pulling (if they ever intended to fix FD) and you can say goodbye to corpse recovery in dungeons as well. I am actually quite pissed about this change and I hope they rethink it.

As far as the over 3 mob bug...I stated a long time ago that I figured that was what was happening. Your FD would succeed on a mob or two but actually fail vs atleast 1. The fail is what kept you camped. The problem is going to happen when they fix it...anytime you run into an overpull your chances of FD success are going to kill you more often then not.. You will now face basically a roll of the dice vs every mob....good rule of thumb on dice rolls...you roll a dice 3 times or more and a bad roll is bound to happen. I can see more fails generated after this bug is fixed and more frustrating complaints that FD is useless....

Mark my words on both FD issues...you might as well take it off your bar...its rare that you would have to FD off 1 mob. Its even more rare the 1 mob will be a 1 or 2 dot..maby a 3 dot but still with some skill you can solo those...4 dot mobs your going to be dead with less then 50% chance and for more then 3 mobs you might as well kiss your butt goodbye.


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Quinn the Mighty

Monk Lead
Kyoshi
Sensei

Karma: +50/-38
Posts: 443

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2007, 09:05:52 PM »

Sorry Soluss I may have inadvertantly misled you. Allow me to clarify

The 1, 2, 3 represents the number of mobs not the number of dots of said mobs. Once 4 mobs are in the picture the rate drops to under 40%. It was quite an eye opener to me as well.

~QTM


« Last Edit: April 12, 2007, 09:08:42 PM by Quinn the Mighty »	Logged

Kazeneko

Recruit

Karma: +2/-0
Posts: 4

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2007, 09:21:47 PM »

You know, I am not usually one to complain about the Monk class. Those who think we're helpless or useless or too far under Class X I usually just dismiss as whiners, as I've had no problems with the class as a whole thus far. I've played a monk all through 6+ years of EQ, and loved the implementation of it here in Vanguard. Since learning Reed in the Wind I have finally been able to solo 2 and 3 dot mobs of an equal level, with a lower chance of dying in the first 10 seconds of combat. The endurance cost of using Reed in the Wind was prohibitive, even with Aum Ti, so you could not spam your best finishers over and over, and relegated you to a more defensive, counterattacking style in order to recast ROTW when it repops, lest you be out of Endurance and take several hits before you have enough to recast. It seemed balanced to me.

A 2 minute recast is being added to ROTW? Why?!?! This, to me, is a HUGE problem. How is this in any way overpowered? I cant tell you how many times I have taken deaths, and at the least several hits in a row, with ROTW active. It doesnt allow me to solo 4 dot mobs the way I regularly see casters, druids, and rangers doing all the time. It just allowed me to switch to a counterattack style of fighting in exchange for forgoing my endurance-draining regular strikes. Perhaps you might intervene on our behalf, Quinn? You are doing a great job, and I am sure I am not the only one who sees that Reed in the Wind is in no way overpowering in it's current form, REGARDLESS of what the original intended recast time was!! With a 2 minute recast, it had better be extended to 30 seconds in duration, as 13 seconds every 2 minutes of a simple dodge bonus is truly pretty pathetic. Please, take a closer look at this one, and urge them to reconsider.

Humbly,
Kazeneko


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Ninbei

Grandmaster

Karma: +12/-7
Posts: 134

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2007, 09:31:30 PM »

all's great, except...
Monk Reed in the Wind has had the intended 2 minute a refresh timer added to it.

2 min refresh on a skill that only lasts 13 seconds (11 second if u count the global countdown)

sigh... i knew it. QTM please ask whoever is making the changes to reconsider 8-\


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Grom

Desciple

Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 31

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2007, 09:59:58 PM »

I'm getting to the point anymore where I just dont have the words to express my disappointment anymore...i still dont really understand what the thought process is going into some of the changes for our class...does anyone at vanguard have a clear vision of our class and how each stance should function and what their role is. The more and more I see how the game and this whole debacle with our class plays out the more and more I fear that this game is doomed. And I really dont want to see that happen but it appears almost inevitable. I'm kind of tired of saying well I'll give them another week to fix this or fix that...it's just getting to frustrating..for every step forward they seem to take a step back somewheres else.


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Soluss

Sensei

Karma: +45/-59
Posts: 335

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2007, 10:43:08 PM »

Quote from: Quinn the Mighty on April 12, 2007, 09:05:52 PM

Ah ok thanks for clearing that up, I totaly misunderstood what you wrote lol.. Just to be clear though, they are not actually changing the way FD currently is except to try and fix a bug of mob camping? Which in effect leaves us 1 less way to single any mobs out correct? That being the case I would hope they would Fix FD before fixing a benefiting bug but alas I know the path of devs is always to fix bugs that help rather then fix bugs that hurt =)


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Fusoya

Guest

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2007, 10:43:34 PM »

Minor upgrades, major nerfs.....seems they are 'fixing' some minor things, while removing the little utility monks had earned. Not sure I can classify this as 'monk love'. Was hoping for quite a bit more before the nerfs rolled in again.

Any chance they can recall the Beta 3 mob pathing coding and break pets instead of FD splitting? Mob pathing was flawless best hands down in any MMO until they changed it to fix some pet issues in beta 3. Remove pets from the game, not monks.


« Last Edit: April 12, 2007, 10:53:39 PM by Fusoya »	Logged

Chunli

Grandmaster

Karma: +12/-4
Posts: 121

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2007, 10:49:41 PM »

Filtered out the list to fit Dragon:

======================================================

- Monk Lowered the mitigation penalty of the Storm Dragon Stances
Not bad, but with how low our mitigation is in general, I do not feel it was needed.
- Monk Lowered the melee slow of the Stone Dragon Stances
Nice change
- Monk The refresh timer on Swaying Step has been removed.
Nice change
- Monk Reed in the Wind has had the intended 2 minute a refresh timer added to it.
Kind of a long refresh IMO
- Monk Stone Dragon Stance now adds the appropriate cold and fire rune (30, 40, 50%).
Please ensure the rune is applied to DoT effects as well. Also is it going to be 50% Rune/10% slow I take it (at 50) ?

I have been working with Talisker our issues list. The following should hit test soon. (On Deck)

Monk – All steps in the Exploding Heart Technique have been increased in power significantly.
Hopefully this "significant" is not of the same scale that "significant" was for Iron Hands not too long ago
Monk – Added a 5 minute refresh timer to all steps of the Exploding Heart Technique
If the damage is great, then this is OK, if not may want to shoot for something less.
Monk – All finishing attacks that were previously 2 minutes are now 1 minute.
Finally
Monk – Reduced the Refresh timer on Secret of Celerity to 15 minutes.
Happy camper
Monk – Increased the power of Ignore Pain, with the most power being gained at the final version.
Nice change, hopefully it is NOT affected by Vitality as well.
Monk – Iron Hand now lasts for 5 minutes and costs 5 Jin to activate.
Amen. Any word on finding the code that sometimes makes Iron Hand cause you to do less damage?
Monk – Secret of Flame now lasts for 40 seconds, has a 90s refresh timer and has an increased chance to apply the DoT portion. The damage is clearly marked in the description.
Monk – Secret of Ice now lasts for 40 seconds, has a 90s refresh timer and has an increased chance to apply the stun portion. The damage is clearly marked in the description.
cool x 2, anything about Transcendence?
Monk – The damage of Dragon’s Breath has been greatly increased.
10 minute timer changing, or is the damage THAT great?
Monk - Increased the damage of Divine Tsunami and Divine Avalanche to make a better, more gradual scale.
Hopefully this will be somewhere near the damage of the Ranger's AE finisher, especially since Tsunami is Dragon only, one would think it would get a hefty damage value.
Monk – Increased the damage and the endurance cost of Dragon Rakes its Claw
Kind of confusing. Hopefully the damage is spectacular since the END cost is going up. May want to remind Talisker that this is a frontal cone and it already costs 34 END. It needs to greatly outperform Whirling Storm, which is in itself a subpar attack for the 34 END cost.
Monk – Trapping Mantis Claw and Cloud Dragon’s Ruse have been lowered in refresh time to 2 minutes.
Not too bad, how about Dragon's Rage? still on the 5 minute timer, or being changed to 2 minutes? Also what about the damage of the attacks?

Also

Clearing up the FD issue as more investigation was done

Against 1, 2, and 3 bad guys you have a 90% chance to succeed FD (modded vs. opponent level)
4 or more bad guys you success drops under 50% (bad *meh*)
In cases where you have more than 3 mobs and that one hangs out is actually a FD failure but the 1st 3 succeed. (bug)
Why not ask him about making each mob on you take away a certain % chance of success rather than going from 90%-50% with the addition of 1 mob?

Thanks much Tali for all of the work over the past week on us!!!

Keep up the feedback

~QTM

edited as to keep confusion to a minimum regarding FD.

======================================================

Looks like some good stuff inc, at least concerning Dragon Style. Still a few cloudy areas, but all in all not bad.


« Last Edit: April 12, 2007, 10:57:36 PM by Chunli »	Logged

Chunli (RETIRED)
50 Kojani Dragon Monk
Tharridon server

Quote

And Monks are BAD A$$
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Dragon Monk Bugs

Ryoku

Grandmaster

Karma: +5/-1
Posts: 110

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2007, 11:04:31 PM »

Glad to see the changes coming. These were all needed fixes and I'm glad the day has finally come.

*cheers* smiley6600


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Monk rights activist.

Paaw

Recruit

Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 12

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2007, 11:23:50 PM »

Really disappointed RITW was nerfed. Im not sure if i will even use the skill with its recast changed to 2 mins.

They could have just upped the endurance cost from 50->80.


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Croaker

Recruit

Karma: +1/-5
Posts: 19

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2007, 11:33:50 PM »

Actually I like most of it except.

Lower mitigation hit on Storm Dragon stance. Meh, it's not like I generally rely on mitigation if I DO have to tank as a Dragon Monk anyways. The change to Stone Dragon however will be welcome as maybe it'll give me a chance to keep some semblance of aggro, instead of almost instantly losing it as soon as I switch to it. Tongue

RITW - I think should be 30 seconds or 60 seconds refresh. In it's current form it is HUGELY overpowering. I can solo 3-dots with absolutely no risk. If I get a bad streak of hits, just FD and do it again. I rarely have to FD as it is.

I don't really care for the changes to Iron Hand and secrets, there were fine the way they were. People were just being lazy. It's not like there was a cast time or refresh timer associated with any of these.

Dragon Rakes is Claw is already FAR superior to Whirling Storm. The ability to choose which mobs get hit and which mobs don't get hit is priceless. Allowing the flexibility of keeping a troublesome mob mezzed while still being able to do AoE damage. I do like the increase in damage though. In fact, it'd be nice if all our AE's got a damage boost.

15 min refresh on Secret of Celerity, woooot. More chances to break my high Thousand Fists chain of 19k at level 34. Cheesy

Maybe it's just me but I don't see where FD is broken. Unless by broken you mean that mobs that are significantly higher than you can see through our pitiful attempts to fool them into thinking we're dead?

Was hoping they wouldn't fix the bug where FD would succeed on some mobs and they would leave, but failed mobs would hang out and NOT hit you. Then again with so many monks complaing that FD was broken this was bound to get fixed.

Either way, it's nice to see that they are at least looking at the class and trying some things out, whether I agree with all the design choices or not.

Regards,
Croaker


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Kyomi

Grandmaster

Karma: +7/-3
Posts: 190

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2007, 11:50:21 PM »

I am overally really happy with those. Our Unofficial Dragon spokesman hit it pretty much on the nail with everything imo.

As much as I was disappointed to read the 2min timer being added to RITW, I have to admit now after thinking a bit it might be fair. 2 mins sounds really long though..I would rather give it a 1min recast too.

All in all I am mostly curious about how much more damage the dragon ae attacks do now.

Thanks for the hard work QTM


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Level 50 Dragon Monk - Infineum
Dragon Monk Issues 2.0

Leishiu

Sensei

Karma: +7/-6
Posts: 318

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2007, 01:40:24 AM »

Quote from: Quinn the Mighty on April 12, 2007, 09:05:52 PM

If that's the case, how come in 1000/1000 cases you will fail it against one and if it's the same setup it will always be failed against the same mob (the second to be agroed if I figured things out)?


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Leishiu ~ Halgar (or sommert)

Leishiu

Sensei

Karma: +7/-6
Posts: 318

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2007, 02:02:06 AM »

Quote from: Quinn the Mighty on April 12, 2007, 08:20:45 PM

Monk – Iron Hand now lasts for 5 minutes and costs 5 Jin to activate.

Suppose he couldn't be convinced that other classes buffs takes minimal effort to maintain for 30+ minutes?

Quote

Monk – Reduced the Refresh timer on Secret of Celerity to 15 minutes.

Has the global cooldown occured by it been adjusted? It's a shame that it eats two seconds.

Great work by the way, nice to see something finally happening. :)


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Leishiu ~ Halgar (or sommert)

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