Vanguard Monks - What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

User Info

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 01, 2008, 09:15:51 AM

News Box

Welcome to Vanguard Monks!

Key Stats

9260 Posts in 1001 Topics by 4090 Members
Latest Member: Uttephade

Vanguard Monks | Monk Discussion | Monk General | What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« previous next »

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4

Author

Topic: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love) (Read 4675 times)

Tenshai

Recruit

Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 12

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2007, 02:57:23 AM »

Excellent changes.

Quote

Monk – Increased the power of Ignore Pain, with the most power being gained at the final version.
Monk – Iron Hand now lasts for 5 minutes and costs 5 Jin to activate.
Monk – Secret of Flame now lasts for 40 seconds, has a 90s refresh timer and has an increased chance to apply the DoT portion. The damage is clearly marked in the description.
Monk – Secret of Ice now lasts for 40 seconds, has a 90s refresh timer and has an increased chance to apply the stun portion. The damage is clearly marked in the description.

^That is going to be awesome.

About the RitW nerf... I think they are (AGAIN) overdoing is. Two minutes is a long time for that kind of ability, especially given the cost. But right now, it's obviously overpowered.
It's still on Test. Try to offer suggestion as to how RitW should be nerfed. Because it has to be. Refresh is not the only option. End cost increase, imo, wouldn't be great. You couldn't use it in the middle of a fight.


	Logged

Kyomi

Grandmaster

Karma: +7/-3
Posts: 190

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2007, 04:01:15 AM »

speaking of global cooldown - RITW shouldn't be on the cooldown specially not if it is going to be pushed back to 2 min recast.


	Logged

Level 50 Dragon Monk - Infineum
Dragon Monk Issues 2.0

jojo

Master

Karma: +7/-3
Posts: 91

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2007, 04:42:32 AM »

Quote from: Fusoya on April 12, 2007, 10:43:34 PM

Minor upgrades, major nerfs.....seems they are 'fixing' some minor things, while removing the little utility monks had earned. Not sure I can classify this as 'monk love'. Was hoping for quite a bit more before the nerfs rolled in again.

I totally agree here. Losing my faith quicker and quicker, prolly gonna end up rerolling.


	Logged

Leishiu

Sensei

Karma: +7/-6
Posts: 318

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2007, 05:23:43 AM »

Iron Skin getting should get a 2 minute reuse (instead of 10) aswell then, since it appears our abilities are finally getting their sanity check on resuses - making it a useful alternative.
RtW is quite powerful as is, I would think the alternative of having it constnatly useable be cut in 1/3rd in potency. :/


	Logged

Leishiu ~ Halgar (or sommert)

Grom

Desciple

Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 31

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2007, 07:19:35 AM »

Quote from: Tenshai on April 13, 2007, 02:57:23 AM

Excellent changes.

Quote

I really don't think they're going to be that awesome.

Iron hand needs to be a 30 min buff and I'm still not sold on the changes to the secrets. I'd be ok with them if they were taking off the global cooldown and could be used without interrupting finishers. I think they shoudl be atleast 60secs with the 90 sec refresh. Even that is a short time but it's better than nothing.

At the end of the day...yes we are getting better in some respects but I still think there is a lot more work to do particularly in the dps department. I still don't think we're where we need to be.


	Logged

Mamoth

Desciple

Karma: +3/-5
Posts: 42

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2007, 08:34:43 AM »

Quote

- Monk Reed in the Wind has had the intended 2 minute a refresh timer added to it.

The changes to Drunken Sway better be pimptastic to nerf our best avoidance skill (13s with a 2 min refresh.. that is absurd!).... and nothing about the stance they jacked up last patch for Drunken.

Sigh.


« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 08:37:13 AM by Mamoth »	Logged

Ninbei

Grandmaster

Karma: +12/-7
Posts: 134

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2007, 09:40:46 AM »

Quote from: Leishiu on April 13, 2007, 05:23:43 AM

I would much rather they nerf the 50% dodge down instead of adding a stupid refresh timer.


	Logged

Leishiu

Sensei

Karma: +7/-6
Posts: 318

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2007, 09:51:14 AM »

Quote from: Ninbei on April 13, 2007, 09:40:46 AM

I would much rather they nerf the 50% dodge down instead of adding a stupid refresh timer.

Nod, two minute might be a bit excessive - 45-60 seconds would make it more solofriendly (where it should shine) without becoming the make-or-break aspect. Once again, I really hope we get proper offensive powers (if we're supposed to be on-par/over rangers who haven't studied their target; our finishers needs to have at least their potency, not half of it - not to mention our abilities, compare blade of summer (200%+sommert) with 6 dragon (100%+same sommert approx) both for 28 endurance. Even though 6 dragon lacks a reuse, something just dosen't add up ~)


	Logged

Leishiu ~ Halgar (or sommert)

Hanzou Masamori

Desciple

Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 29

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2007, 12:34:37 PM »

Most the stuff is pretty nice, Chunli pretty much voiced my thoughts about the Dragon related things already... again all in all nice to hear they are working on things... but I definately think they went WAY overboard on the nerf to RitW, I fully expected it to get tuned down or a bit of a timer added just so it couldnt be used to keep perma dodge mode on... but again as others have said a 2 minute reuse is pretty close to worthless for a 13 second ability. Its just mind boggling.

Swaying Step shouldve always had its reuse removed AND you should still be able to attack while its active without breaking it. As for RitW a more appropriate change wouldve been moving it to a 30 second reuse while reducing the dodge bonus a little bit (35 or so) OR a sizable reduction in the dodge bonus but a more consistant duration; for example have it grant 30, 45, 60 second duration at rank 3 with a 2 minute reuse while lowering the dodge bonus to 25 percent (half as effective as before).


	Logged

-Hanzou Masamori

Riot

Grandmaster

Karma: +1/-1
Posts: 112

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2007, 01:06:19 PM »

All I really want is some kind of slow/hamstring so we don't get rolled in PVP.


	Logged

||| Riot ||| Tharridon ||| 46 Dragon Monk ||| Guild: Alarius |||

Zebitz

Recruit

Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 24

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2007, 02:57:57 PM »

Quote from: Quinn the Mighty on April 12, 2007, 08:20:45 PM

On test now 4/14

Monk – All steps in the Exploding Heart Technique have been increased in power significantly.

------ Ok with this one I have a question with the exploding heart tech. What is this is this a skill or a combo. I am still not understandin this crap ( either I am an idiot that just mashes buttons) or I have been doin this right along

Quote

Also

Clearing up the FD issue as more investigation was done

Against 1, 2, and 3 bad guys you have a 90% chance to succeed FD (modded vs. opponent level)
4 or more bad guys you success drops under 50% (bad *meh*)
In cases where you have more than 3 mobs and that one hangs out is actually a FD failure but the 1st 3 succeed. (bug)

Thanks much Tali for all of the work over the past week on us!!!

Keep up the feedback

~QTM

edited as to keep confusion to a minimum regarding FD.

And so with this the FD does this mean we will be able to solo pull these guys like the old days or we still goin to remain the same as currently?


	Logged

Kazeneko

Recruit

Karma: +2/-0
Posts: 4

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2007, 03:02:27 PM »

RITW - I think should be 30 seconds or 60 seconds refresh. In it's current form it is HUGELY overpowering. I can solo 3-dots with absolutely no risk. If I get a bad streak of hits, just FD and do it again. I rarely have to FD as it is.

I am really confused by this... as a level 41 Harmonious monk, if a mob turns to me in a dungeon like graystone, if I hit Reed in the Wind II, I will be at a fifth or less life by the end of it's 13 second duration, if not dead, with Zank equipped. If I switch to a windblade, and Eternal Crane stace for defense, I can up that to half of my HP if I'm lucky. I have just about full Drane's gear, so my AC is at least average. To top it off, even if Aum Ti is up, unless I'm in Crane, I cant use all of the normal damage builders like Boundless Fist and Crescent Kick to trigger crits, or mob debuffs like Eagle Claw and Deadly Adder without bringing my endurance dangerously low and ensuring I get clobbered when RITW refreshes and I dont have enough endurance to recast it.

Are you like level 50 and get some magical power that I dont have yet 9 levels below you? Why do I keep hearing how RITW is overpowered?? If you're talking about solo... yeah I can solo a 2 dot now, if I solo a 3 dot, even with FULL defenses as outlined above, I will end the fight with a third of my life unless I use ignore pain. Isnt that about in line with what pretty much all the solo classes can do on a regular basis? What gives? I just want to know your reasonings.

Not picking on you particularly BTW, Croaker, but you seem to be sure about it being HUGELY overpowered, so I'd like to know why you think so. Anyone else who feels the same, please explain it to me.


	Logged

Daremo

Recruit

Karma: +1/-1
Posts: 2

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2007, 05:44:09 PM »

I have to agree with Kazeneko on this one...

I fail to see how being able to solo a 3dot at max +2 levels is over powered... Considering Druids (one of the closest matches to monk on the caster side) can solo a 4dot +4 levels, and a 5dot if they really want to spend the time. And don't even mention Necro's.

I think we've been conditioned to accept how gimped we are, and any effort to raise us to an even moderately balanced level feels like cheating to us Tongue

As for the FD "fix"... I'm really interested in how they expect the skill to function... If, in a 4 mob pull, having 3 return to postion, and one just camp us, but not attack, is broken... what did they expect to happen? If they expected the 3 to return but the 4th to continue pounding us, while we're laying down... NOT good for us; if they expected the FD to fail all together, NOT good for us... I really fail to see a positive outcome to this "fix".

What I see from these changes is:

Slightly up the heal on a 5min timer solo heal - woop, better than nothing
Increasing Iron Fist to 5 min at 5x the cost - a good start, but no where near what we wanted. I would consider a 15 min time to minimum
Increasing secrets to 40sec time, but increasing timer to 90sec - This one disturbes me also, and I'm surprised that no one commented on it... this is a NERF! Currently, it's a 30sec time, and 60sec timer, so by alternating fire/cold, you can keep a damage secret up constantly... now there's a 10sec lag when neither is up (I do NOT consider celerity into this chain, as it's more of a gimmick to me, with end costs where they are)

The more I think about it, the more I belive this is a nerf in sheeps clothing...


	Logged

Khana Kopnisien

Sensei

Karma: +9/-4
Posts: 369

Re: What's up and Whats on deck..... (more monk love)

« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2007, 08:18:49 PM »

I might only be 30, but I feel I have to chime in. Overall ANY attention to ANY class is good. These changes IMO are highly positive. I cannot comment on RITW because I haven't found the mobs that will teach it yet - spend all of my time on Qalia.

Quote from: Daremo on April 13, 2007, 05:44:09 PM

I fail to see how being able to solo a 3dot at max +2 levels is over powered... Considering Druids (one of the closest matches to monk on the caster side) can solo a 4dot +4 levels, and a 5dot if they really want to spend the time. And don't even mention Necro's.

The thing is, when those casters are getting hit, they'll drop rather fast. We, as a melee class, get hit, and dodging a lot of hits probably feels like cheating to devs although it isn't, really.

Quote

I don't know how you play, but I use WASD in combo with my mouse. One mob pounding on me is no problem whatsoever, because if I see that's happening, I just get up by pressing any WASD button. No need to even click your FD hotkey or remove the icon. You can also combine moving with clicking on your defensive stance button, can you not?

Quote

Increasing Iron Fist to 5 min at 5x the cost - a good start, but no where near what we wanted. I would consider a 15 min time to minimum

I fail to see the problem. I have no problem with the one minute timer as it is and five minutes makes it easier. But honestly, what's the point in asking for 15 or 30 minutes? All you're doing is diverting attention from other abilities to go from 12 clicks an hour (5 min timer) to 4 or 2. Gimme a break.

Quote

Increasing secrets to 40sec time, but increasing timer to 90sec - This one disturbes me also, and I'm surprised that no one commented on it... this is a NERF! Currently, it's a 30sec time, and 60sec timer, so by alternating fire/cold, you can keep a damage secret up constantly... now there's a 10sec lag when neither is up (I do NOT consider celerity into this chain, as it's more of a gimmick to me, with end costs where they are)

Currently, it's not 30, it's 20. But yes, you will have ten seconds where no secret is up. It's worse now - 20+20 = 40 for a reuse of 60 per ability. Which means you'll be going from 20 to 10 seconds without a proc Secret active.