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December 01, 2008, 10:25:17 AM

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Vanguard Monks  |  Monk Discussion  |  Monk General  |  Test server update 10th april ~ « previous next »
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Author Topic: Test server update 10th april ~  (Read 3044 times)
Fusoya
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« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2007, 07:28:32 AM »

84% melee avoidance with locked aggro from jeering kick / aoe taunt
-tanking 53 6 dots and avoiding 16 attacks in a row
-soloing 6dot lvl 48's to 60% (before they hit me twice and i get pwnt)

Highest crit 92,000, lowest possible non-crit 16k on a less then 30 sec cooldown (buffed)
-as far as i know 92k is highest non-finisher crit (nerf dk omgz)
-the cooldown reductions all stack you can get it down by 70something percent (20%bard, 25%psi, 25% aum)
-can solo a mob to 30% in the time a fairly high dps group of 5 can get a mob dead

Kiting ability with 5 required melee attacks

Pulling named through 20 trash mobs to a group single (or double), splitting named out of their sets

-with a bloodmage healing, we are the best tanks in game
-we are hands down the highest dps class in game
-pulling single mobs in a zone immune to crowd control is more utility then pretty much everything aside from healing

I'm all for dev's evaluating the monk class as we have many bugs, but i don't want to see us become severely overpowered. As honestly, I think a monk is one of the most overpowered classes in this game right now. It's a hell of a lot of button smashing and timing, but atm we can fufill any role for a group aside from healing. I kind of chuckle when I read these posts about how bad monks are, I don't know if people honestly think that, or just trying to milk the image that has been portrayed of the monk class.

I want fixes, not god-mode.

Hell....maybe I am playing a different game, what did you guys buy? >< I just don't understand, honestly. I still find it humorous heh.
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Riot
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« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2007, 07:31:17 AM »

You speak of 92k crits... I am a level 41 Dragon Monk and have never even broke 9k... and the 9k was an epic thousand fist crit on the Graystone skellies....  Let me know what kind of code you put in so I can get those kind of numbers, too.... Up up down down left right left right b a select start.
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« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2007, 08:00:39 AM »

Heavy fighters are already complaining that monks can tank better then them. I dont see how not sacrficing all of our dps could be considered balanced. Seems like tanking monk with full dps would be a bit of god-mode imo. I think the loss of all dps but allowing us to take the role of a tank is a good trade off.

Monks do not tank better than defensive fighters.  We don't have the hitpoints.  We don't have the mitigation.  Avoidance is inefficient and unpredictable in tanking situations, and every tank and healer worth a damn knows this and agrees.  Most tanks I know actually have fairly similar evasion with a shield equipped, and far superior mitigation to boot.  I don't know how any defensive fighter could ligitimately argue that monks tank better.

Did anyone actually read my post?  Our entire style of monk is currently defined by spamming our two taunts.  If that is how we are to "sacrifice" dps, then I take serious issue with that for good reason, as I explained very well in my post.

The only new suggestion I made was moving the damage shield to our nuetral stance of drunken mastery, and the hate generation to the defensive stance.  Adding hate generation does not equal adding dps.  Without the damage shield, the defensive stance would actually produce lower dps.

Almost right - swap these two components and it should read:

Drunken Fist = More damage, More Squishy (that even possible? - no bonus evasion I suppose)
Drunken Mastery = Damage Shield (Drunken Slap Shield, heh), Quick Refresh, Some Dodge
Drunken Sway = Dodge and Parry, Adding Hate

If these are our choices, then swapping those two components is what really needs to happen.  If it is decided we are still doing too much damage from our defensive stance (unlikely), then a flat percentage reduction to damage output could be added.

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jojo
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« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2007, 08:09:14 AM »



If you are tanking you'll prolly want to go with Drunken Mastery as it has evasion, hate and refresh haste that does stacks with Aum Kor.


Haste refresh from stance is not stacking with Aum Kor on live atm.
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Quinn the Mighty
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« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2007, 08:58:55 AM »

I was having a couple of issues with the drunk changes last night on test... I didnt think the drunk changes were readyfor live but got pushed out....

I am trying to track down Talisker  knuppel2

~QTM
« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 10:59:09 AM by Quinn the Mighty » Logged
Zebitz
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« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2007, 10:21:21 AM »

I was having issues with the drunk changes last night on test... I didnt think the drunk changes were readyfor live but got pushed out....

I am trying to track down Talisker  knuppel2

~QTM

go get him QTM!  knuppel2
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Shengyi Tsung
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« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2007, 11:49:48 AM »

I'll hold him, you can punch  knuppel2
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Dena
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« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2007, 03:39:27 PM »

The more you post, the more arrogant you come off, Fusoya.

92k crits, really?  And you do this often?  My best is just over 6k at level 37 and that was once.  I must either be a moron or suck at playing a monk.  My evasion is also only 37% in defensive crane stance.  With a windblade I can get that up to 45%.  Now sure I cold spam reed in the wind but I can't do any damage at all then.

Speaking of damage they did some internal testing and found that we ranked just above bards and well below rangers and rogues.  I'm also outdamaged by DK's and several caster classes including psi's, necros and sorcs.  It also seems that many other people are noticing the same thing.

Just goes to show how apparently you are the only one here that truly knows how to play a monk and somehow you are able to make it the best class in the game.  Kudos to you sir.  Maybe I and the rest of the monk community should find a new and easier class to play, the monk being beyond us as we are only able to get sub par performance.

As I showed in a previous post, debunking your leet pulling methods I'm sure with the right data we could once again prove you to be wrong yet again. 
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Dena
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« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2007, 03:41:21 PM »

Just to add to that, with our 80% evasion and hitting for 92k how is it that I can barely tank a green 3 dot mob while my DK friend can easily tank a white 3 dot and be full health at the end?
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Leishiu
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« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2007, 04:25:45 PM »

Highest crit 92,000, lowest possible non-crit 16k on a less then 30 sec cooldown (buffed)
-as far as i know 92k is highest non-finisher crit (nerf dk omgz)
-the cooldown reductions all stack you can get it down by 70something percent (20%bard, 25%psi, 25% aum)
-can solo a mob to 30% in the time a fairly high dps group of 5 can get a mob dead

Hmm, what ability? While VGplayers might not be updating as it should be, you would imagine the ability to land ~92k crits would mean at least someone would be listed at 80, 70, 60 or even 50k damage since crits wouldn't be that irregular - there should be enough playerbase for it to update for someone - but highest listed is 33k.
Do you mean the entire Thousand Fists chain as a drunken? Yea, that's a decent chunk of damage, and 16000 sounds about right for every strike in the chain landing without crits. However, speaking from experience (and having an actually recorded 26,339 hit on VGplayers) that wont happend very often - epic crit against skeletons on first strike in chain would allow approaching that number (second in chain isn't a blunt attack, unsure how the drunken followups are) if the following strikes were also epic - something that would be a mathematical exception.

Just curious.
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Leishiu ~ Halgar (or sommert)
Fusoya
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« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2007, 06:21:17 PM »

Aye sorry, meant the thousand fist chain, highest crit was 38k legendary from 1 of the parts of the chain. chain total = roughly 92k as of last night, before that was 84k, see 60-70k chains fairly often. Also the VG players says my highest melee swing is 0...so its not to reliable. I mentioned the cooldown timer on the thousand fist, but left out the part of it being chain dmg added, not single swing. sorry that does seem a bit ridiculous for a single attack to hit for 92k
« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 06:24:11 PM by Fusoya » Logged
jojo
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« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2007, 06:26:20 PM »

-soloing 6dot lvl 48's to 60% (before they hit me twice and i get pwnt)

I can do pretty good up til i get pwnt too. Anyone can tank a mob til they get two shotted?
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Fusoya
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« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2007, 11:00:58 PM »

Clearly I am not allowed to make jokes, it makes me arrogant =P lighten up a bit <3
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Fusoya
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« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2007, 11:05:08 PM »

In regards to the evasion, 84.06% WITH reed in the wind....and yes you sacrifice all your dps. in exchange you get hit 16% of the time and hold aggro. keeping reed in the wind is hard on endurance, also hard to time with jeering to hold steady aggro, you also will probably need to use the aoe taunt to let ur endurance regen a bit when it gets drained, but cycling those abilities you can maintain aggro and 84% avoidance.

These are suggestions, no need to point out flaws and pick them apart. any suggestions on improving it are more then welcome. its the way i perform as a tank, take what you like from it and make it your own. most of the time when a monk resorts to tanking the group wont care about your dps, since you are performing the role of tank.

Dunno why everyone has been so hostile lately, 90% of my posts are in humorous moods. My post about evasion + crits were mostly poking fun at the flamers, and yet again it got picked apart by the same people it was aimed at. I post here to help other monks explore their class as i have, im not saying my way is the best, or the only way, just giving suggestions for other people to work off of in hopes of improving their gaming. I'm sorry if they have sent out the wrong message, i mean no offense.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 11:16:03 PM by Fusoya » Logged
Croaker
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« Reply #44 on: April 12, 2007, 03:10:22 AM »

I'm also not seeing this great disparity between us and Rogues and Rangers.  Granted I'm only level 34 currently.  But I've had a high crit of 10k and regulary do 6-12k chains with the thousand fist chain.

I was listed on VGplayer rankings for class until I ran into the bug that wipes your high hit.  That bug being the one that displays some ungodly damage number when fighting.  If you get that, chances are it's completely wiped your melee high hit.

Also, people that continue to quote that internal testing that Sigil did has to remember this was before a single change to DPS went in for monks.  Our DPS has increased by a rather HUGE amount since then.

Also, recently playing around with Reed in the Wind and the new Storm Dragon Stance, I don't lose THAT much DPS while continually refreshing RITW.  Considering that counters are popping up faster than I can use them, and that they hit on average for 500-700 non-cirit and 700-1100 on a crit.  Autoattacks were hitting for 350-600 a pop with a 34ish DPS Windblade which is the worst weapon for DPS but rocks my socks for tanking and soloing.  Storm Dragon procs for between 600-800 non-crit on both autoattacks and counters.  Only played with it a little so not sure what a crit on Storm Dragon would be.  Proc rate would appear to be around 25% or so for the proc.

And all that while maintaining a constant 79.XX, basically 80% avoidance.  This was solo, with no buffs.  Usually I'm grouped with a Bear Shammy so DPS would be higher and Endurance costs would be lower.

Throw a bloodmage into the group for an additional 30% mitigation and I can see why Heavy Tanks would complain.

Granted with no taunts, I doubt I could hold aggro in a high dps group doing this.  But it should do wonders for soloing and duoing with my bear shammy friend.  I prefer DPSing to tanking anyways, ergo the Dragon Monk choice although I'm still waiting to see if something is done to make Dragons do more DPS than Harm monks.  Storm Dragon stance looks like a good start, but not sure if it's enough.  An additonal 4% crit chance is nice and all, but nothing like the 25% that Harm gets.  And not sure the big proc damage can make up the difference.

Drunken monks might still need some work, not sure.  They should make the defensive stance similar to other tanks defensive stances.  A boost to defense, a boost to hate generation, and something to reduce DPS.

The class still needs some tweaks, but it's nowhere near the trainwreck that it was just a month ago.  And the class is still nowhere near as pathetic as the monk in EQ2.  You want to see a pathetic monk go play that.  Where they are classified as a tank class and are tied for worst DPS among tanks and dead last for tanking among tanks.

Regards,
Croaker
« Last Edit: April 12, 2007, 03:12:45 AM by Croaker » Logged
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