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Vanguard Monks  |  Monk Discussion  |  Monk General  |  Monk Itemization « previous next »
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Author Topic: Monk Itemization  (Read 1734 times)
Fusoya
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« on: April 05, 2007, 11:08:05 AM »

Last night I aquired the 'best' monk weapon currently in the game....only to see it is 1.85 delay. Why are monks so geared towards auto attack dps when we are the class who resorts to it less then any other?

-Maces and Swords available to other DPS classes are 20-30dps less, but their special abilities are using the same or greater damage in the equation for abilities....keeping in mind ability damage is about 95% of overall DPS.
-45dps one handed mace dmg is literally double that of our 45dps knuckle (both from necropolis).
-The 69+ dps claw i just got has max damage of around 130, yet 45 dps maces have upward damage of 200.

Perhaps the dev's need to look into the monk delay to figure out why our DPS is so far behind what it should be. We shouldnt need to find weapons with 3times the calculated DPS to keep up with the ability damage from the other light fighters. If we had our weapon damage from items doubled...i think that would be a big step towards equalizing DPS amongst the classes.

I honestly feel itemization is the main force holding back monk DPS. By going 2h we gain a bit more damage (martial weapons are still a lot faster then great axes / polearms etc.), but lost 7.5% crit, which is a major focus of monk dps...crit chains. By going dual weild, we are sacrificing almost all of our calculated ability damage.

The monk weapons were put in before the huge melee revamp where all our abilities were based off of set damage. Now that all of our abilities are percentage based, I feel monk weapons need a serious glance.
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taveren
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« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2007, 01:02:46 PM »

Our DPS just feels abysmal.  I sport two flawless guardian's handwraps of striking (about 50dps) at level 29 and I'm still easily out damaged by warriors with far lesser weapons/gear. 
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Ryoku
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« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2007, 02:37:30 PM »

Even with Zank at 30 and max dex, I do abysmal damage. I barely crit and that hampers my DPS output right there. I'm very tempted to try and find 35+DPS handwraps and go Harmonious so I can actually crit a few times a fight instead of praying to high heaven that one of my attacks at least will crit.

But then again, it's almost been two weeks since I've spent any amount of time on my Monk. If we're not significantly boosted, he's getting retired in favor of my DK.

As it stands now, I have almost no desire to play my Monk.
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Shengyi Tsung
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« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2007, 04:19:54 PM »

Even with Zank at 30 and max dex, I do abysmal damage. I barely crit and that hampers my DPS output right there. I'm very tempted to try and find 35+DPS handwraps and go Harmonious so I can actually crit a few times a fight instead of praying to high heaven that one of my attacks at least will crit.

But then again, it's almost been two weeks since I've spent any amount of time on my Monk. If we're not significantly boosted, he's getting retired in favor of my DK.

As it stands now, I have almost no desire to play my Monk.

And why should you?  If you wanna DPS and have the FD ability play a necro.  If you want to do melee damage play a ranger.  If you want to do anything that a monk does but better you can play virtually any other class and with the exception of FD you will be able to do it better. 

The monk class is the weakest class in the game, period. 

What i don't understand is it feels like no one but monks actually cares.  Even if they made us overpowered for the length of time it takes for them to fix our class, at least the majority of the few of us left wouldn't be unhappy.  I for one would enjoy being ranger-like for a few weeks while they take the time to fix all of the other things that are clearly more important than class balancing while we wait for a REAL adjustment.  Some people will disagree and have stated they wouldn't want to be overpowered much like DKs are now, (i don't understand why) but that's their opinion and i respect it.  However i feel we deserve something for putting our money down to help jump start the game and waiting months to be fixed.
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Ryoku
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« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2007, 06:12:11 PM »

Couldn't have said it better myself man.

Monks have no purpose whatsoever outside of FD CRing, but if I primarily wanted to be concerned with the safety of others and whatnot I'd have rolled a Cleric; so pardon me if I'm not whimsically amused over the thought of that being our niche.

It's a problem compounded by our complete lack of itemzation and expanded tenfold by the fact that seemingly every class is getting buffed each patch but us.

Where we were a leg behind at launch we're now a good 40km behind second to last.
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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2007, 09:07:11 AM »

Maybe since I am an orc monk with high strength and also Harmonious I don't have a lot of the same issues as people posting here, but I don't think the monk is in as bad a shape as people are saying.  We definitely have issues and our dps needs upgrading but we are not unplayable and I would not call my DPS abysmal.  I do believe there is an itemization problem though.  I think there needs to be more weapons and gear put in game that helps a monk.  Energy users can get gear that improves their energy.  Monks don't get any gear that improves their jin or their endurance. 
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Shengyi Tsung
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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2007, 10:34:38 AM »

Well here's the thing leadfoot, (i also am an orc harmy monk with lots of str) i too thought my DPS was fine and thought i was doing a lot of damage until i started parsing and looking at the cold hard numbers.  For all the sacrifices we make as a class, and im talking no utility, no group buffs, no healing powers, little tanking ability (no better than other light fighters really) we should easily have the highest light fighter DPS.  Currently we have the lowest of ALL DPS classes.  So while our DPS is a little better than a good heavy fighter, picking a monk over any other light fighter sacrifices DPS and all the other utility buffs and minor healing and regen abilities ETC that other light fighters bring to the table(even rogues can evac, lull, and mez now).  Since Necros get FD, do a lot more DPS than us and their pet can offtank better, they basically make the monk completely obsolete.  Think of the big picture mate.  It all relates and we are literally the weakest class in the game.  I don't think anyone is arguing that we are unplayable, and its not an issue of not having fun because weaklings can have fun too  laugh its just the game is SOOOO out of balance and im one of those people on the verge of OCD (at least when it involves balancing classes) that it drives me completely bonkers sometimes.  Thats why some days i seem civil and can post good ideas and be helpful and some days i just rant and rave because i'm fed up with it, lol.
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Chunli
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« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2007, 05:59:27 PM »

Our itemization is pretty weak IMO. We are also missing some weapon styles that would open up some slower 1 hand weapons. Nunchaku and Batons could = 1HB. Sai = 1HP. Swords = 1HS (although using a 1 hand sword goes against the traditional video game Monk, many did actually use 1 hand swords, and even dual wielded). Bring in the Sansetsukon to use in addition to the Martial Staff for 2 HB. If using special attacks did not reset our autoattack swing, using the fast weapons would not really be as bad as it is. I just hate how few choices we have as far as weapons goes.

To address the thoughts that our DPS is fine...compared to like a healing classes melee attacks I suppose our DPS is fine. But if you actually parse our DPS in comparison to other DPS classes, you will be a sad panda.
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Chunli (RETIRED)
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Ryoku
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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2007, 12:30:14 PM »

Which is why, Chunli, call me ungrateful but I'm not filled with glee that Dragon Monk health regeneration is going live on Test as one of our only changes >_>
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Shengyi Tsung
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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2007, 04:27:09 PM »

Which is why, Chunli, call me ungrateful but I'm not filled with glee that Dragon Monk health regeneration is going live on Test as one of our only changes >_>

Yes........woohoo.........that'll fix the DPS issues......... idiot2
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Ryoku
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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2007, 05:10:17 PM »

[This post has been PWNED by Quinn]
« Last Edit: April 08, 2007, 11:40:31 AM by Ryoku » Logged

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Quinn the Mighty
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2007, 10:20:27 AM »

I don't acknowledge that DPS is an issue??? It's our #1 issue Ryoku

from our consolidated bug / issue thread

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Issue: The monk is supposed to have the highest DPS baseline of all offensive fighters. This is not the case. Some of this may be tied to itemization or lack of it at lower levels.

I suppose I could have used bold font, or have it change colors but I guess I wasn't going for the vegas look on it.

I have a thread or 2 going on VG Rangers, asking about damage delt in the 1st 25 seconds of combat. and there are lots of parse threads that I have gone over here on VG monks. So trust me it's a known issue. I am aware of it. As isTalisker and his team. Part of this is tied to itemization the rest is ability related.

Pretty much every time I talk to Talisker I am pushing DPS, Stance / FD fixes so they are abundantly aware of this. We are supposed to be able to kick arse take names, but in many cases we don't and unless we change all the mobs in telon to skeletons we just don't live up to the billing.

We are closer now to our goal since Update #1 but there is still a way to go.

~QTM
« Last Edit: April 08, 2007, 10:24:39 AM by Quinn the Mighty » Logged
Shengyi Tsung
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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2007, 11:27:09 AM »

I don't acknowledge that DPS is an issue??? It's our #1 issue Ryoku

from our consolidated bug / issue thread

Quote
Issue: The monk is supposed to have the highest DPS baseline of all offensive fighters. This is not the case. Some of this may be tied to itemization or lack of it at lower levels.

I suppose I could have used bold font, or have it change colors but I guess I wasn't going for the vegas look on it.

I have a thread or 2 going on VG Rangers, asking about damage delt in the 1st 25 seconds of combat. and there are lots of parse threads that I have gone over here on VG monks. So trust me it's a known issue. I am aware of it. As isTalisker and his team. Part of this is tied to itemization the rest is ability related.

Pretty much every time I talk to Talisker I am pushing DPS, Stance / FD fixes so they are abundantly aware of this. We are supposed to be able to kick arse take names, but in many cases we don't and unless we change all the mobs in telon to skeletons we just don't live up to the billing.

We are closer now to our goal since Update #1 but there is still a way to go.

~QTM


ROFL QTM!  Start pushing for that!
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Ryoku
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« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2007, 11:37:30 AM »

I stand corrected, Quinn. Thank you for posting that.  uglystupid2
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Fusoya
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« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2007, 07:03:08 PM »

I vote no changes on FD, fix monk dps and a few of our abilities / durations and we're gtg.
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