Great post Jojo, many thanks!

When she told me about that ability, I almost rerolled to drunken that day (we play on the same server).  However I'm so stuck in my dragon ways that I couldn't do it. I didn't get anything cool like that at 46, so I'm hoping I get it at 50.  Now if I could just stop getting convinced to run quests for everyone and their mother, I could go grind out the last 80% I need lol.

MMmm yeah.... it's probably best not to think about that too much. 

Drunken sounds pretty nice.  Is it possible to use the 20% dmg bonus stance in a group where you're not tanking?  I imagine you could pre-emptively feigh death to avoid aggro.  Also, i'm guessing that no one -but- drunken gets the 4th thousand fists finisher? 

Oh and to clear up a point, i'm almost positive harmonious never gets to exploit their own weakness, but i'm only 44.  IMO they should look into adding weakness exploiters to a finisher or two... 

Since I am a Drunken monk, I should probably follow up with what jojo said from a "tank" point of view, to one where I will normally be just a DPS type monk.

First off, the reason I picked drunken is because my wife plays a cleric, so I thought the extra mitigation would help us in the long run when her and I duo. From about 4:30 - 7:00 her and I will duo. From 7:00 - 11:00, my static group will form. So, I have the luxury of getting a view of both sides. Hopefully this will give me insight. I am close to 50 (48), so hopefully my experience will show from a little different standpoint having seen both sides of the coin.

I am going to respectfully disagree with one thing jojo said. That is that he shouldn't be tanking what he is tanking. In comparison to what a normal tank can tank (in my case, a pally tanks for us), he takes 1/3 the dmg that I do.... if that. While a mob will hit me for 1100, it will only hit him for around 300. That is a big difference in tanking ability and shows that an "off tank" monk is nothing more than someone that might be able to tank for a couple of seconds in a group situation, where you have 4 - 5 dot mobs (sometimes multiple mobs), in the current state, we are no tank... or off tank for that matter.

I'll use the same colors jojo did so there is no confusion. =)

Drunken Mastery Stance: Attack Speed +10%, Dodge +5%

Bug: jojo's concern about the bug has also been seen by myself as well as group members. They'll often comment about how that was a weird ability to have and I have to explain to them it's a bug from one of my stances. The other bug is that icons do not match. The yin yan does not match the one in the buff list.

This skill just doesn't upgrade as jojo mention. From a DPS point of view, I will use this stance when I am not tanking (since my other "DPS" stance has aggression added to it.. and I don't want to be pulling agro).

So, I will probably use it more often than jojo. I would say it's my default stance when not tanking so I don't pull agro. I mean, I have nothing else that will increase DPS without adding aggression... so it's really my only option. While this could use an upgrade, this is a drunken monks only effective stance when not tanking imo.

Legendary Drunken Fist: Damage +20%, Aggression +25%

Bug: No icon makes it very hard to know if you are in this stance or not. It's disappointing when you see Sigil working on stance icons but won't fix fundamental issues with other types of things like this.

I just cannot use this in a group situation where I am not the tank (note: I only tank when a cleric and I are grouped.. it's not effective enough to be done all the time). In this stance, I will pull agro on a regular basis. While the 20% attack is nice, it's coupled with a huge downfall when not tanking making it almost useless in a group situation.

This does increase my BH weapon DPS quite a bit. But, again, it's not usable in a group.

Immortal Drunken Sway: Dodge +15%

I'm in 100% agreement with jojo on this. This stance makes no sense. It's like the devs could not make up their minds on whether we should off tank or not so they threw us a bone with this. It just doesn't work as advertised and it's a stance I've never used (other than trying it out a few times to see if it made a difference).

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Aum Learned Abilities - I am going to copy and paste the skills from jojo's post so it's uniform. Then I'll put my own perspective on them (from a DPS type monk that sometimes will tank).

Jeering Kick IV: 15 end, 197-212 dmg and compels your opponent to target you for 2 attacks. Jin+1

This skill can be helpful but it's rarely used in a group. I'd say, I almost never use it. When I'm the one tanking, I will use it quite a bit to keep agro on me if the cleric pulls it for some reason.

The usefulness of this skill is diminished in a group situation. I can see how it would be helpful, but in my static group (shaman, pally, cleric, monk, psi), it rarely gets used. The only reason I would use it, is if the tank died and the healers were getting hit. I will use this to pull it off them. So, in that aspect it does give some utility... but it's limited.

Staggering Punch V: 22 end, 50% weapon damage, staggers your opponent for 8 seconds. Gives 1 Jin.

Bug: Agree with jojo here. What is the deal here? The skill doesn't upgrade as you go through the ranks. /boggle

This is another skill that is rarely used at my level. Crescent kick just does not pack the punch to make this worthwhile. If anything, I will use it to build up jin as well. Other than that, I won't touch the thing.

Spinning Fists III: costs 4 Jin, deals 363-279 damage but an autocrit, opens chains.

Rarely is this used as well. Lurching Feint is by far better.

Foolhardy Swagger III: costs 4 Jin, refresh 30 seconds. Taunts all opponents around you to attack you for 5 attacks.

This is a death sentence for a monk in a group. Since groups will normally go after mobs 3+ levels higher than them (and 4 dots to boot), if I were to take all agro from all mobs, I'd be asking for a rez about 2 seconds after. It's just not useful in groups.

On the other side of this, when I have to tank.... this is a great skill to have. For 5 attacks, I keep agro. Combined with Jeering kick, it's touch to pull agro off me when these are used.

Clumsy Whirl III: Dodge Counter. Recast 1 minute. A whirling attack that deals 100% weapon damage plus 467-495.

Fairly decent dmg dealer and it's good for clearing trash. That's pretty much all I have to say about this skill.

Errant Strikes: costs 6 jin, recast 1 Hour. Allows each of your attacks to strike an opponent that is attackign your defensive target for 1 minute.

This is a very very nice skill. However, I agree with jojo... 1 hour refresh? Sheesh. This is the type of thing they could reduce the refresh on and would make some of the "we don't do enough DPS" crap go away. It's a very useful skill to have that can up our DPS.. but not up it so drastically to change our DPS on each and every mob.

Lurching Feint III: costs 6 jin. You lurch and weave, confusing your opponent and causing it to stop attacking for 3 seconds. This ability increases the crit chance of your next attack by 30% and always opens finishing attacks.

Yep, I'm in agreement with jojo. A good ability that can be used to increase DPS a little bit.

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Again, while drunken monks are doing so-so, we are not off tanks at all. I do not expect to tank as well as pallys, DKs, or warriors... but when you choose a stance that specifically says you'll be able to evade incoming attacks... and then it doesn't do as advertised, it's disappointing.

What would make things nice, is if we had skills (or stance) that allowed us to tank effectively but would drain the the energy of healers around us having to heal. Right now, it's difficult for healers to even get heals off if I have to tank with group level mobs because I die fairly quick. This way, we can tank if the main tank goes down.. but it's not an effective way to do groups.

We give up DPS for evasion. Thing is.. they took our DPS when we chose drunken... but also took our evasion for the most part.

Could someone PLEASE explain to me what errant strikes does.  If it does what it says in the description LITERALLY, it does nothing, lol.

Errant Strikes: costs 6 jin, recast 1 Hour. Allows each of your attacks to strike an opponent that is attackign your defensive target for 1 minute.

So does this make you not miss?  i dont understand this at all.  All it bascially says is that whatever hits your defensive target your attacks will hit.  it sounds like a DUH ability to me.  Can't you just target the thing attacking your defensive target and hit it?  LOL!  So what is it that this thing does that makes it so fabulous?  Is it that if you target the attacker as offensive target, and make the thing its attacking your defensive target, you double attack?

Gonna repost something I posted in the other thread for consolidation's sake.

If I had known I was going to be main tank for my static group I wouldn't have rolled a Drunken Monk, I would have gone Dread Knight or Pally. But, I played monk in eq1 and I love the class and thats what I wanted to play. Being able to tank to 50 was cool but not really where I want to see the monk class or drunken style headed as a whole.  If we were to have aggro management abilities maybe instead of just flat taunts, it would be 10x better IMO. I'm an offensive fighter, but I sure as hell don't feel like one atm.  How should Sigil fix this? I really don't know, and its not really my job to know, its their deal.  I honestly would have made a Drunken Style post months ago if I thought it would make a difference, but the way the monk community has been treated in beta and in release, I really don't know if anything will make a difference at this point.