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Vanguard Monks  |  Monk Discussion  |  Monk General  |  Monk love soon. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Monk love soon.  (Read 8799 times)
Ryoku
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« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2007, 03:16:59 PM »

Not trying to spread any negativity, but in accordance with the above post I will say that precisely six of the nine Monks I have been friends with on my server since creation have at some point completely rerolled and abandoned the class. It is also the class I see the least of on my server and particularly in my guild I was the first active monk out of 129 members and until I brought in a couple of my friends.

Perhaps that's a stronger statement about the state of our class than "We're broken."
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jojo
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« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2007, 04:16:28 PM »

Not to be overly negative but that post didnt particularly give me a warm and fuzzy feeling...."we need to spread the love" and "you're included in the review of all classes bugs". I mean I understand they cant focus fully on us but seeing as how we are rather broken not just a little buggy I would have liked to see a little more of a focused "we're definitely working on your class next" or something to that effect. That post just made me a little more disheartened that Sigil just doesnt think we are in line for that much of an overhaul...that we just need your avg bug fixes...

Just my thoughts

My feelings exactly. I am not against other classes getting their fixes and tweaks, this is a group game for me and every class that gets a fix is one more person that I group with that will perform better.  However, this totally destroyed my notion that there was a few Sigil Developers sitting around a table discussing soley what to do about the severe underbalance that monks are facing atm.


but hey, thank GAWD they found the time to add this extremely ugly yin-yang icon to Drunken Mastery Stance. Did they lose some artists or something? one of these thigns is clearly not like the others. good thing it still adds the default icon to my buff list and drunken fist icon is still not on buff list, or i'd think we got some bug fixes this patch already!

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Tari
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« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2007, 04:48:49 PM »

I came to the site today wondering if I should even bother checking weekly at the rate things have been going, having seen the most recent patch notes. Cancelled my subscription quite a while ago, haven't logged in for 2+ weeks, but at least having a very bare acknowledgement, if not being lumped in with every other class is more than before...which is to say a little Juicy-Juice juice pack is more drink than usual in a barren desert. But still! This at least warrants keeping an eye on things once a week Tongue

And as others have said, being lumped in with other classes as if we're complete and an actual asset to a group, simply needing some bare bug fixes here and there is very discouraging. But that's why I cancelled and never play, so if Sigil's goal is to do enough to just keep me watching occasionally without paying to play, then bravo!

And this kind of pessimism I have going is the reason I don't post or lurk much, let alone play at all anymore. So I'll keep quiet now. =)
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Lomash
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« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2007, 05:23:11 PM »

Paladins, much needed love?  They're practically the best class in the game!  Good defense, heals, a broken spell that does 2000+ damage instantly, I'd say they don't need much love.

A Paladin is my second main after a monk, and I can say that while they were never in as poor shape as the Monk, all the changes they've gotten have been justified.

Sigil's changes of the paladin have shown a very strong understanding of the class and what it could use the most in terms of tweaks. The fact that Talisker himself plays a Paladin would explain that now.



« Last Edit: March 29, 2007, 04:17:51 AM by Lomash » Logged
Jaxinor
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« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2007, 12:59:15 AM »

Not to be overly negative but that post didnt particularly give me a warm and fuzzy feeling...."we need to spread the love" and "you're included in the review of all classes bugs". I mean I understand they cant focus fully on us but seeing as how we are rather broken not just a little buggy I would have liked to see a little more of a focused "we're definitely working on your class next" or something to that effect. That post just made me a little more disheartened that Sigil just doesnt think we are in line for that much of an overhaul...that we just need your avg bug fixes...

Just my thoughts

My feelings exactly. I am not against other classes getting their fixes and tweaks, this is a group game for me and every class that gets a fix is one more person that I group with that will perform better.  However, this totally destroyed my notion that there was a few Sigil Developers sitting around a table discussing soley what to do about the severe underbalance that monks are facing atm.


but hey, thank GAWD they found the time to add this extremely ugly yin-yang icon to Drunken Mastery Stance. Did they lose some artists or something? one of these thigns is clearly not like the others. good thing it still adds the default icon to my buff list and drunken fist icon is still not on buff list, or i'd think we got some bug fixes this patch already!



You could reroll to dragon and get a cool red and black one.  But then you know that stance wouldn't work :/
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Chunli
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« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2007, 08:58:05 AM »

QTM reminded me that I am a slacker and have not been visiting as much as I should.  Apologies.  My team is working hard on numerous things and we are spread thin.  As some of you have noticed, the Paladin just got some much needed love and after finishing that I have moved on to getting the AA system planned out.  The other members of my team (Avair and Assaylant) are pouring through all the class bugs we can find and fixing bugs.  This is not a pass to address your concerns, which will come very soon.  Our primary goal is to get everything working properly and we need to spread the love across all 15 classes.

I speak with QTM daily.  He and I have a great repoire (hes a great guy, so it wasn't hard) and I trust his judgment.  He keeps me informed and pesters me about fixes.  If you are unhappy about the traction you have recieved with your concerns, you should lay the blame at my feet, as he is doing his job well.  (His job btw way is to filter your feedback to me. Bugs and concerns raised both on this forum as well as in his own play.  I simply don't have time to go through 1/2 the threads and get valuable feedback.)

As I told him about 10 minutes ago, we are going to be going through the list of concerns for you class and the other classes and examining them.  Some things are easily fixed.  Others will require more time and code.  I will keep QTM informed and he will pass the information along to you.  I will also try to pop in more often, but it can be hard to break stride on an involved task and post.

Hmm, actually reading this post a little better I did become a tad bit more negative. I was really confused why a Paladin needed more love than us. They have a bugged virtue ability in Dictum of Valus where all ranks can be used one after another, and damage is doubled as opposed to 1/2 in PvP. Their virtue point regens faster than the intended 1 per hour. As of this patch they have an instant 6 second stun (useable in combat) with no cooldown and an ability that reduces the heals of the target by 75%. They have heals, multiple invulns, do good damage, have some nice group buffs,  and are Defensive Fighters. The Paladins in my guild say they swear a Dev must play a Paladin.

Why did they need more love than us? I am all for Defensive Fighters being strong since I have some high hopes for end-game raiding. But if they are getting such sweeping changes as they have...well the changes for Monks better blow me off my feet when we actually get  "looked at" We have been broken since the combat system got changed in Beta. The piddly fixes we have been thrown are not what we need to fix us. You basically tossed us a bag of saline with no IV kit while we are dieing of dehydration in the desert. Why on earth would you even THINK of an AA system before fixing all classes. Shouldn't you have everything running smoothly with classes before adding more to them?

As far as reading forums and posting...are you really that much more busy than Avarem and Cylus to check on forums to see how the community feels about issues? People give feedback on Art issues and Quest issues and get responses from them rather quickly. I see the Devs for VGTact posting all the time on their forums. Whereas getting a response from you is like asking us to pull your teeth out. Quinn is great and all, but sometimes the playerbase wants to hear from the Man, not the Middleman. If you do not want to go to all of the fansites to read posts, read the ones here. But at the very least there should be some feedback from you on stuff. The only thing worse than negative feedback is no feedback at all. Which is basically what we as Monks have been stuck with.

Sorry if this post sounds harsh, but when you play a class that you love, and watch as others outpace you (balance wise) when they are already one of the more polished classes, then you tend to get a bit irratated.  Spreading love across all classes is not going to get the job done, I'm sorry. Some classes need a lot more work than others, and (while I may be a bit biased)  Monks are one of those classes. Maybe try speading love, while focusing more on one or two classes. And use the **In the works page**  to post what classes you are focusing on this week. The community as a whole would probably be a lot more appreciative.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2007, 09:01:21 AM by Chunli » Logged

Chunli (RETIRED)
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Jaxinor
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« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2007, 09:13:10 AM »

QTM reminded me that I am a slacker and have not been visiting as much as I should.  Apologies.  My team is working hard on numerous things and we are spread thin.  As some of you have noticed, the Paladin just got some much needed love and after finishing that I have moved on to getting the AA system planned out.  The other members of my team (Avair and Assaylant) are pouring through all the class bugs we can find and fixing bugs.  This is not a pass to address your concerns, which will come very soon.  Our primary goal is to get everything working properly and we need to spread the love across all 15 classes.

I speak with QTM daily.  He and I have a great repoire (hes a great guy, so it wasn't hard) and I trust his judgment.  He keeps me informed and pesters me about fixes.  If you are unhappy about the traction you have recieved with your concerns, you should lay the blame at my feet, as he is doing his job well.  (His job btw way is to filter your feedback to me. Bugs and concerns raised both on this forum as well as in his own play.  I simply don't have time to go through 1/2 the threads and get valuable feedback.)

As I told him about 10 minutes ago, we are going to be going through the list of concerns for you class and the other classes and examining them.  Some things are easily fixed.  Others will require more time and code.  I will keep QTM informed and he will pass the information along to you.  I will also try to pop in more often, but it can be hard to break stride on an involved task and post.

Hmm, actually reading this post a little better I did become a tad bit more negative. I was really confused why a Paladin needed more love than us. They have a bugged virtue ability in Dictum of Valus where all ranks can be used one after another, and damage is doubled as opposed to 1/2 in PvP. Their virtue point regens faster than the intended 1 per hour. As of this patch they have an instant 6 second stun (useable in combat) with no cooldown and an ability that reduces the heals of the target by 75%. They have heals, multiple invulns, do good damage, have some nice group buffs,  and are Defensive Fighters. The Paladins in my guild say they swear a Dev must play a Paladin.

Why did they need more love than us? I am all for Defensive Fighters being strong since I have some high hopes for end-game raiding. But if they are getting such sweeping changes as they have...well the changes for Monks better blow me off my feet when we actually get  "looked at" We have been broken since the combat system got changed in Beta. The piddly fixes we have been thrown are not what we need to fix us. You basically tossed us a bag of saline with no IV kit while we are dieing of dehydration in the desert. Why on earth would you even THINK of an AA system before fixing all classes. Shouldn't you have everything running smoothly with classes before adding more to them?

As far as reading forums and posting...are you really that much more busy than Avarem and Cylus to check on forums to see how the community feels about issues? People give feedback on Art issues and Quest issues and get responses from them rather quickly. I see the Devs for VGTact posting all the time on their forums. Whereas getting a response from you is like asking us to pull your teeth out. Quinn is great and all, but sometimes the playerbase wants to hear from the Man, not the Middleman. If you do not want to go to all of the fansites to read posts, read the ones here. But at the very least there should be some feedback from you on stuff. The only thing worse than negative feedback is no feedback at all. Which is basically what we as Monks have been stuck with.

Sorry if this post sounds harsh, but when you play a class that you love, and watch as others outpace you (balance wise) when they are already one of the more polished classes, then you tend to get a bit irratated.  Spreading love across all classes is not going to get the job done, I'm sorry. Some classes need a lot more work than others, and (while I may be a bit biased)  Monks are one of those classes. Maybe try speading love, while focusing more on one or two classes. And use the **In the works page**  to post what classes you are focusing on this week. The community as a whole would probably be a lot more appreciative.

Ummm, /agree.  I was gonna say it earlier, but didn't want to take the heat.  Especially the part about pally's needing love.  That made me laugh.  Paladins have been an amazing class since before beta 3 and it's never changed.  The part about being busy in comparison is very valid point as well.  I know Cylus from beta, and he always take the time to respond to my PM's within the day.  Other devs literally take weeks (Tsunadosh anyone?).  AA before you balance classes = horrible idea.
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Fenrirr
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« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2007, 11:29:37 AM »

And so far that I have seen Monks have the worst itemization in the game then any other class. Our weapons are a limited choice. Our hand weapons are fast but because they are fast they do to little dmg and thus your specials dont hit hard and your dps actually takes a hit rather then a 2hander which makes your specials hit hard and more dps boost.
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Shengyi Tsung
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« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2007, 12:40:50 PM »

Why did they need more love than us? I am all for Defensive Fighters being strong since I have some high hopes for end-game raiding. But if they are getting such sweeping changes as they have...well the changes for Monks better blow me off my feet when we actually get  "looked at" We have been broken since the combat system got changed in Beta. The piddly fixes we have been thrown are not what we need to fix us. You basically tossed us a bag of saline with no IV kit while we are dieing of dehydration in the desert. Why on earth would you even THINK of an AA system before fixing all classes. Shouldn't you have everything running smoothly with classes before adding more to them?


Dude, i totally agree that is a load of BS!!!  As i have said in previous posts i have made, especially after game update 1, 
how can you go about adding new content when the original content still needs A LOT of work.  AA stuff will add abilties, but they abilities on our current palette are NOT WORKING AS INTENDED yet.  So you know what AA will mean?  Another 3-4 months of waiting before our AA abilities will work properly.

Come on guys!  You are smarter than that!  You know you can't add new content to buggy original content!  you HAVE to have a strong base before you can build anything else, otherwise it will all collapse!  Finish the game, finish beta, fix the problems that there are now, and do the additions LATER after everything else is already functioning correctly.

You know where our evasion went?   The devs nerfed our evasion and gained a +monk forums evasion bonus and are now maxing out at around 90% forum evasion.  It looks like the devs defensive stance easily trumps our offensive stance because the only attack we have is forums and the devs are nearly immune to those attacks........

Maybe i just don't know anything about MMOs, or maybe i know a lot.  Personally i would sit down and completely fix one aspect of the game before moving on to new things.  I would sit down and fix the classes and balance them fairly evenly, ALL of them (including ability fixes).  Then i would handle the group bugs, then i would fix the AI bugs and then the game world glitches.  To me, the most important part of any game is the part the user interacts the most with, his character.  Therefore, all chracter classes at this point should be fixed (and if they aren't they should be the topmost priority.)
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Ninbei
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« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2007, 01:26:02 PM »

what exactly is AA anyways?
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Soluss
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« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2007, 01:50:38 PM »

alternate ability points...basically you can get xp to put into AA once you have enough you get 1 point. You can then put that point into an ability that you dont normally have...this gives characters more customization, makes them more powerful etc.  Its basically another form of skills or boosts to current skills and another way to advance your character.
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Vinjin
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« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2007, 02:21:39 PM »

AA = Alternate Advancement. It's simply a mechanism that allows the player to continue improving their character without actually leveling.

It's actually a solid concept because of the issue that max level has on the game. Players always want to feel like they can advance or improve but simply raising the level cap means essentially means adding new content, which must be planned, conceptualized, designed, implemented and supported, all of which obviously takes quite a bit of time to do correctly. Additionally, new content and levels have a tendency to make previous content outdated or even obsolete.

To give you an idea, the way it was implemented in EQ was you would be able to earn XP toward a separate AA bar that once you leveled, would earn you 1 AA point, not a new level. Once you accrue enough AA points, you could then use those points to "purchase" new AA skills, such as increasing your in-combat regeneration rate, or mana regen rate, or run speed, etc.

Personally, I'm glad they're looking to incorporate the AA system into the game, but I would agree with most of the folks above in that it's way too early to be actually delving too deep into at the moment. Fixing the core game should be everything until it's fixed.
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Chunli
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« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2007, 08:21:04 AM »

I still think it is BS that Talisker does not have the time to read and post here, sorry...I think my earlier reply pretty much hits the nail on the head about how people view his reply to us.  What if every week he makes 1 post answering a set number of issues/concerns/wishes we have? One post is not a lot to ask of someone. I would say 20 items for discussion would be about right. So once a week he answers 20 questions for us in one lump sum post. Think you can try to swing that Quinn?

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Chunli (RETIRED)
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« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2007, 08:56:09 AM »

i think they are working on a revamp thats why they are not fixing us in the previous patches
(only reason i can think of Undecided)
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Vinjin
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« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2007, 09:14:41 AM »

I still think it is BS that Talisker does not have the time to read and post here, sorry...I think my earlier reply pretty much hits the nail on the head about how people view his reply to us.  What if every week he makes 1 post answering a set number of issues/concerns/wishes we have? One post is not a lot to ask of someone. I would say 20 items for discussion would be about right. So once a week he answers 20 questions for us in one lump sum post. Think you can try to swing that Quinn?

Why exactly do people need Talisker to post each week that he's been reading our posts and concerns? This is exactly why Sigil has reps assigned within the community, such as our own Quinn the Mighty. As our rep, Quinn is responsible for going through all of these posts and consolidating them into a single message back to the devs to respond back to him to so he can then convey that message back to us. I personally feel that QTM has been doing a tremendous job thus far but some of these responses seem to imply that some of you do not.

Also, realize what you're asking for here. Talisker isn't exclusively responsible for monks. Expecting him to post here a set amount of times means every one of the other 12 or so classes deserves the same expectation. If he lived up to that expectation of simply reading and posting, where exactly does he find the time to actually make any game changes to address them? He doesn't.

Seeing Talisker or any dev post here is great but I certainly would not want the devs taking precious time away from actually fixing our issues just to come post on our board letting us know how they actually feel about those issues. That communication between dev and player is still happening. It's just through a middle channel: the class rep. And ours is doing a great job of it too.
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