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A Humble Monks Opinion.
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Topic: A Humble Monks Opinion. (Read 1622 times)
Remy
Recruit
Karma: +1/-2
Posts: 4
A Humble Monks Opinion.
«
on:
March 26, 2007, 10:58:09 AM »
Now i know ill probally catch flak for this but oh well here it goes.
Im a 27th Druken monk (Experience in Beta3/4 up to 48) I know since they bumped evasion ive heared alot of crap about monks being useless and what not. Every single post/email/tell/pm etc ive read about the monks utilities have been close but still off key in my Opinion. (Yes I said it OPINION!) Monk are not tankers, we can but its not what were for, we are there to assist the tank with dropping the targets health down. We put the mob in various Ailments that other classes can pull upon. Also, for those that are whining, "Oh were not strong enough, Oh we cant solo, oh our DPS Is crap". Gimme a break and re-roll the monk and keep tryin, you probally jacked up your stats. Im not trying to step on toes as my first post but im trying to show other monks that are thinking about ditching it to think agian and try something else.
To Dragon Monks:
--- My Proc is broke what now?---
Focus on your Dmg. Though you might dps a bit less then a Drunk/Harm you will still do more dmg when buffed/solo. Watch your health and keep an Eye on your Jin. Learn to Time Jin Surge and your heavy hits. Time your Chains and Learn what combo's Forces you to Crit. ( Dont even Start 'Oh its a chance to crit' Cause i can crit every or every other hit with ALL My Monks.) In a party with a Sorc/Warrior- Try to keep your target Staggered or Enraged. Trust me the sorc will notice they either crit more or their dmg starts to shoot through the roof.
To Druken Monks:
---Our Evasion Sucks. Learn to play another class Remy your talking out of your a$$ ---
Sure, are you statting your monk correctly? At lvl 27th I have a 32% and a 12% Melee Dodge. (Cant remember the exact tool tip.) My Dex? In the 290's. Str? In the 230's. Sure i might not do alot of dmg but a mob +3 Lvls and 3 dot is soloable with a keen eye on my health. We Are a counter Class, use it to your advantage. Also, Remember that not only other classes play off of how we set the mob up. Even we can use Staggers and such to our advantage.
To Harmonious Monks
--- Well, we kick the other monks butts with our skill ---
Alas, You are one of the favored with players but it comes at a price. A Druken monk with a keen sense of his abilities and have you questioning on if the fight just happened. Though i havent played a Harm Monk since beta 3 You have flaws just as the rest of us do and it will be only a matter of time (When i get off my butt and work a harm monk up ;P ) untill i will be able to better attack you with your own power.
Now I know this isnt much of an opinion but im on my lunch break from work and ill be more then happy to answer any questions and flames regarding my first post. Agian i apologize for it being in this manner.
Logged
Ryoku
Grandmaster
Karma: +5/-1
Posts: 110
Re: A Humble Monks Opinion.
«
Reply #1 on:
March 26, 2007, 11:32:42 AM »
Do you work for Sigil? That's my only question.
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Monk rights activist.
Varu
Master
Karma: +3/-0
Posts: 62
Re: A Humble Monks Opinion.
«
Reply #2 on:
March 26, 2007, 11:37:36 AM »
So how can I always crit?
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Varu, 50 Harmonious Monk of Bladesworn -Sartok
******Bladesworn.org******
Shengyi Tsung
Grandmaster
Karma: +5/-8
Posts: 197
Re: A Humble Monks Opinion.
«
Reply #3 on:
March 26, 2007, 11:39:38 AM »
LOL Remy! Nice first!
Question about drunken monk:
You said you could solo a 3 dot 3 lvls above you?
"Sure i might not do alot of dmg but a mob +3 Lvls and 3 dot is soloable with a keen eye on my health."
What weapon type do you use? (martial staff, h2h, bladed, martial sword)
I love counter attacks, and drunken is the only style i have yet to try and i imagine they have the best. On my Harm monk (i started out dragon, now testing harm and comparing) i can bump up to 43% evasion or so, but it doesn't seem to make that much of a difference during a fight honestly. ESPECIALLY against and even con or above. I still get hit about 9 times out of 10. You know what im doing wrong or whats up with that?
Do you really think a drunken monk is that tough? I guess i should switch styles again and give'em a go, but i just got northwind breaks the trunk, (LOL @ name) and i can debuff mob attack damage by 150-200+ for about 15-20 seconds. (Deadly Adder Hand IV + Northwind).
Also, which do you feel does more damage, h2h vs 2handing. I have a 40DPS and 32 DPS h2h weapons and a 41DPS bladestaff. EVeryone keeps telling me that tiger stance + 2handing is sooooo much more damage by i still feel my h2h in Jin stance FAR out DPSes what i do 2handing. My special attacks h2h seem a bit higher wiht combined numbers than my 2h piercing. Also i have epic critted for 10k total with h2h and maybe 7k max with epic on 2hander in the same group. not to mention i attack much faster with h2h so im putting out more auto attack bonus damage in between specials (which i can spam constantly because i use jin stnace, i ALWAYS have a special attack going. I think i've foudn the perfect balance). I guess i would like to hear your opinion on it, especially from a drunken monk perspective and since you hit 48 in beta im sure you have much more experience than i do with a monk.
I'm currnetly a 38 Harmonious. Thanks for info!
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Ryoku
Grandmaster
Karma: +5/-1
Posts: 110
Re: A Humble Monks Opinion.
«
Reply #4 on:
March 26, 2007, 12:23:11 PM »
You do realize, Remy, that you effectively said nothing about each stance in your post correct? You essentially strung random lines of words together occasionally tossing in something relevant to the class such as "Jin Surge" or "Crit chance."
From one humble monk to another, I award you the "WTF" badge of the day.
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Monk rights activist.
Riot
Grandmaster
Karma: +1/-1
Posts: 112
Re: A Humble Monks Opinion.
«
Reply #5 on:
March 26, 2007, 12:46:45 PM »
I'd like to see you solo a 3 dot 3 levels higher than you. I can barely solo a 2 dot 1 or 2 levels higher than me as a Dragon style Monk. And my crit chance isn't that great, I'd say 1/5 or so, which isn't remarkable considering the ONLY way our class can survive is dependent on constant crits.
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||| Riot ||| Tharridon ||| 46 Dragon Monk ||| Guild: Alarius |||
Ninbei
Grandmaster
Karma: +12/-7
Posts: 134
Re: A Humble Monks Opinion.
«
Reply #6 on:
March 26, 2007, 12:49:58 PM »
Quote from: Ryoku on March 26, 2007, 12:23:11 PM
From one humble monk to another, I award you the "WTF" badge of the day.
ROFL!
To be honest i had a little trouble understanding Remy's point. Is he saying we should all reroll if we're not happy w/ monk or we should hang in there?
Personally, I like being a monk, just because. We may be seriously lacking in group utilities, we may hit like sissies compared to other DPS class sometimes, we may be the least popular and least played class in vanguard, and we may even be one of the worst soloers. But nothing beats leaping from roof to roof, boulder to boulder, true Chinese kung fu movie style. I'm gonna have fun w/ my monk.
Logged
Remy
Recruit
Karma: +1/-2
Posts: 4
Re: A Humble Monks Opinion.
«
Reply #7 on:
March 26, 2007, 05:01:07 PM »
Quote from: Ryoku on March 26, 2007, 11:32:42 AM
Do you work for Sigil? That's my only question.
No....
Quote from: Varu on March 26, 2007, 11:37:36 AM
So how can I always crit?
Play with your skills. Not sure with Dragons monks cause i havent played one since novermbish of last year. Ive Found Best Results with switching from combo to combo to see what works good with the current mob and what i can feed off of. (Staggered, Dazed, Enraged, Etc)
Quote from: Shengyi Tsung on March 26, 2007, 11:39:38 AM
Question about drunken monk:
You said you could solo a 3 dot 3 lvls above you?
Yes I have too keep a constant watch on my health so i dont drop too far below the no return zone. Now if your trying to take one more then one just go ahead and fd and wait for them to leave. If you thought thats what i meant im sorry for misleading you.
Quote from: Shengyi Tsung on March 26, 2007, 11:39:38 AM
"Sure i might not do alot of dmg but a mob +3 Lvls and 3 dot is soloable with a keen eye on my health."
What weapon type do you use? (martial staff, h2h, bladed, martial sword)
Currently I have a Sentinal Knuckle and a Vodels Brass Knuckles.
Quote from: Shengyi Tsung on March 26, 2007, 11:39:38 AM
I love counter attacks, and drunken is the only style i have yet to try and i imagine they have the best. On my Harm monk (i started out dragon, now testing harm and comparing) i can bump up to 43% evasion or so, but it doesn't seem to make that much of a difference during a fight honestly. ESPECIALLY against and even con or above. I still get hit about 9 times out of 10. You know what im doing wrong or whats up with that?
Just because your Evasion (Wich i thought was taken from the game and put to evade and parry an such.) is at 43% doesnt mean youll dodge 43% of the time. Just saying you have that much of a chance to dodge that much at your level. Now if you had a highend dex you might be able to do a bit more but im not 100% sure atm. Id have to log in game and start tearing down my stats and such. (Just got back from a 2 week vacation and found out we got buffed and such...8pts lol.)
Shoot me a pm and ill send you my ts info so i can talk to you easier. Ill post what i can when.
Quote from: Shengyi Tsung on March 26, 2007, 11:39:38 AM
Do you really think a drunken monk is that tough?
If you play them well yes. Ive taken dragon monks like a hot knife through butter and same for harm. Im also not a complete Squish in PvP Either. Ive had a few DK's, Pallies, and more (Not casters though...they are the bane to my existance.....) start fighting me and run away later pming me saying that i was exploiting and such cause one out of 4/5 hits would actually land.
Quote from: Shengyi Tsung on March 26, 2007, 11:39:38 AM
Also, which do you feel does more damage, h2h vs 2handing. I have a 40DPS and 32 DPS h2h weapons and a 41DPS bladestaff. EVeryone keeps telling me that tiger stance + 2handing is sooooo much more damage by i still feel my h2h in Jin stance FAR out DPSes what i do 2handing. My special attacks h2h seem a bit higher wiht combined numbers than my 2h piercing. Also i have epic critted for 10k total with h2h and maybe 7k max with epic on 2hander in the same group. not to mention i attack much faster with h2h so im putting out more auto attack bonus damage in between specials (which i can spam constantly because i use jin stnace, i ALWAYS have a special attack going. I think i've foudn the perfect balance). I guess i would like to hear your opinion on it, especially from a drunken monk perspective and since you hit 48 in beta im sure you have much more experience than i do with a monk.
I'm currnetly a 38 Harmonious. Thanks for info!
Well not sure. Ive found a few Windblades that i could do more dmg with but lose maybe a point or so DPS. Find a group of mobs the same type and level and start some tests. When OB Came out i spent about 5 Hours in Trengals Just testing between a couple weapons and a set of armor. Now if your pulling a special constantly you might wanna try beefing up your STR/DEX instead of Going DEX/Str. Now i know if i switched out my armor set to a tank type gear i could do alot more dmg but id be a mana sponge.
Quote from: Ryoku on March 26, 2007, 12:23:11 PM
You do realize, Remy, that you effectively said nothing about each stance in your post correct? You essentially strung random lines of words together occasionally tossing in something relevant to the class such as "Jin Surge" or "Crit chance."
From one humble monk to another, I award you the "WTF" badge of the day.
Naw really? Im just trying to give an opinion on how to help dps/dmg effects. Not a complete new way of how to play a style. Each person's way of playing is a bit differnt. Im postive you can pull another drunk monk and he could survive a bit more or do a bit more of dmg/dps becuase of his armor choice and the way he plays. Thank you for the award though ill wear it with pride.
Quote from: Ninbei on March 26, 2007, 12:49:58 PM
To be honest i had a little trouble understanding Remy's point. Is he saying we should all reroll if we're not happy w/ monk or we should hang in there?
Hang in there. Sorry should have cleared that up a bit but i was in a slight hurry to get to work early for a breifing i was going to give.
Well i probably made afew peoples day by making them laugh but thats alright. Small Minds are always the easiest to entertain and steal from.
Logged
Vinjin
Master
Karma: +3/-1
Posts: 97
Re: A Humble Monks Opinion.
«
Reply #8 on:
March 26, 2007, 05:11:30 PM »
Quote from: Shengyi Tsung on March 26, 2007, 11:39:38 AM
...but i just got northwind breaks the trunk, (LOL @ name)
Imagine if it was named North Trunk Breaks Wind.
Logged
easyplay
Recruit
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 9
Re: A Humble Monks Opinion.
«
Reply #9 on:
March 26, 2007, 05:55:27 PM »
my monk must be broken, i seem to crit a lot ( almost seems all the time)and i do solo many mobs 3 dot 2 lvl's higher than me. i was worried about sucking in grps but after my first session with my co workers and friends they all said my monk rocks as a main tank and dps. If monks rocked more than i do now i could power lvl all the way to 50 in a week. i was tanking lvl 16 3 dots at lvl 13 with a disiple as my only partner and no buffs. I hold agro and can steal agro better than my eq shadowknight. Or I can lose agro.If monks had a snare and fd worked as it did in eq id swear i was playing a sk with a huge bonus to dps. granted i haven't played any other char pass lvl 3 do to bordum so my opinion prolly dont mean much but i am very pleased with my dragon monk
«
Last Edit: March 26, 2007, 05:58:31 PM by kalndar
»
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Chunli
Grandmaster
Karma: +12/-4
Posts: 121
Re: A Humble Monks Opinion.
«
Reply #10 on:
March 26, 2007, 06:39:34 PM »
Quote from: Remy on March 26, 2007, 10:58:09 AM
Now i know ill probally catch flak for this but oh well here it goes.
Im a 27th Druken monk (Experience in Beta3/4 up to 48) I know since they bumped evasion ive heared alot of crap about monks being useless and what not. Every single post/email/tell/pm etc ive read about the monks utilities have been close but still off key in my Opinion. (Yes I said it OPINION!) Monk are not tankers, we can but its not what were for, we are there to assist the tank with dropping the targets health down. We put the mob in various Ailments that other classes can pull upon. Also, for those that are whining, "Oh were not strong enough, Oh we cant solo, oh our DPS Is crap".
Gimme a break and re-roll the monk and keep tryin, you probally jacked up your stats. Im not trying to step on toes as my first post but im trying to show other monks that are thinking about ditching it to think agian and try something else.
The highlighted part is rather confusing/does not make a bit of sense. Do you mean switch styles? Or do you mean roll another class? If you jacked up your stats, just use your refund points and reallocate them. No need to reroll anything there.
Now addressing your "tips" for Dragon Monks. What level is your Dragon monk? Oh wait you haven't played one since November. Things have changed since then.
-Storm Dragon stance proc does not stack with secrets or procs from other classes. It does not hit multiple targets if you use an AE. It can be resisted, and it can actually miss, even though your attack landed. Also the damage does not scale with level.
-Stone Dragon stance does not apply the rune it is supposed to for Fire/Cold attacks, and the AC buff is static rather than being a scaling number. At least you attack slower.
-Dragon stance does not work period.
-Dragon Rakes Its Claw (frontal cone attack) costs the same END, but does less dmg than the full AE all monks get.
-Divine Tsunami (melee damage + 515) barely does any more damage than Divine Typhoon (melee damage + 492) and does less damage than Divine Avalanche (melee damage +516) all are on a 2 min refresh as well. Leet damage for the follow-up of an advanced finisher
-Dragon's Rage does pitiful damage for a 5 minute refresh/4 Jin cost. (366-390 damage, always crits) and does not always crit. Reduce the refresh greatly and it could be worth using.
-Cloud Dragon's Ruse is a subpar attack as a 5 minute refresh/6 Jin attack. (melee + 350, makes target not attack for 1 second {worthless}, and always opens a finisher). Reduce the refresh greatly and it could be worth using.
-Dragon Breath is another subpar attack. 10 minute refresh/8 Jin cost. Frontal cone attack that does 400-424 damage. Wow talk about an overpowered attack. /sarcasm
-Three Finger Strike and Hammer Fist both do about 75 damage on average. Yes let me be happy with this damage I get rewarded with at level 50. Palm Explodes the Heart is OK damage at 1234. So for an attack chain I get at 50, I can look foreward to (75) + (75) + (1234) = 1384 unbuffed damage from a 3 part attack chain...wow.
-Aum Liat should have the negative effect of having all attacks cost 25% more END removed, then it would be worth using.
-Jin Surge should not be consumed on a miss, on a buff, or on an autoattack. The buff should only be consumed on the next special attack. Jin surge should also not cancel out your finisher chain when you use it.
-Ignore Pain should be a % of total HP heal, especially if it is on a 5 minute timer. On my tooltip it reads 827 heal, but really does 777 because my Vitality is not spectacular. Our heal should not be based on Vitality either, remnants of an outdated system when we had energy.
-FD is still buggy as SNARF. I can succeed 10 times in a row on a group of mobs that are aggroed to me, yet they will not leave my body and they keep me in combat. Not good when said mobs hit for 1.5k and can stun.
Wow, if you are content with these bugs, then you must also enjoy being punched in the face on a regular basis. Pointing out problems with the class is not the same as whining. Making lists of what is SNARFed up needs to be done until we get a dev that gives a SNARF about how SNARFty the Monk really is when compared to the other Offensive Fighters. Sorry, I just do not buy into the whole "find out how to enjoy the class even if it is jacked up" line of crap so many people try to preach.
«
Last Edit: March 26, 2007, 07:15:13 PM by Chunli
»
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Chunli (RETIRED)
50 Kojani Dragon Monk
Tharridon server
Quote
And Monks are BAD A$$
__________________
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Dragon Monk Bugs
Ryoku
Grandmaster
Karma: +5/-1
Posts: 110
Re: A Humble Monks Opinion.
«
Reply #11 on:
March 26, 2007, 10:29:10 PM »
Quote from: Chunli on March 26, 2007, 06:39:34 PM
Wow, if you are content with these bugs, then you must also enjoy being punched in the face on a regular basis. Pointing out problems with the class is not the same as whining. Making lists of what is SNARFed up needs to be done until we get a dev that gives a SNARF about how SNARFty the Monk really is when compared to the other Offensive Fighters. Sorry, I just do not buy into the whole "find out how to enjoy the class even if it is jacked up" line of crap so many people try to preach.
This.
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Monk rights activist.
Paaw
Recruit
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 12
Re: A Humble Monks Opinion.
«
Reply #12 on:
March 26, 2007, 11:01:32 PM »
Are you some ranger that just made an account to troll ?
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Tyriien
Recruit
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 2
Re: A Humble Monks Opinion.
«
Reply #13 on:
March 27, 2007, 02:15:23 AM »
Quote from: Ryoku on March 26, 2007, 10:29:10 PM
Quote from: Chunli on March 26, 2007, 06:39:34 PM
Wow, if you are content with these bugs, then you must also enjoy being punched in the face on a regular basis. Pointing out problems with the class is not the same as whining. Making lists of what is SNARFed up needs to be done until we get a dev that gives a SNARF about how SNARFty the Monk really is when compared to the other Offensive Fighters. Sorry, I just do not buy into the whole "find out how to enjoy the class even if it is jacked up" line of crap so many people try to preach.
This.
Yes - that. Thank you Ryoku for typing that post of yours up, because I was just amazed at how every single thing you pointed out in red text bothered me to no end.
And really, um, what do you people mean by "reroll?" You don't get any new/different/special abilities by rerolling a character unless you change your damn race, in which case you substitute one buggy racial ability that doesn't work right, for a different one that doesn't work at all, or worse. You just use your refund points to re-do your stats, and that's that. There's nothing else to "re-roll." You can slap a new spanking beard on your face, make yourself really short, and hope you crit more maybe, I don't know...
Before I decided to check this site out, I was on the verge of like, switching to a cleric. Because it just has to be mildly discouraging, and a challenge to your "Hero." status when you get pwned the soul out of your body by like 2-3 mobs your level after level 15 (or maybe it's just me?), and then watch some cleric beat like 5, if not more, of his level.
"Damn! Now I have to wait for half of my mana pool to regen!"
"Oh *bleep* you."
And then you also get commented on by "smart" clerics in ways like: "Clerics aren't for everybody. Some people are better off playing a class that is easier, like damage dealers or such."
I don't know. I firmly believe that just because you're a "Tank," it shouldn't mean that you have a crapload of armor and solo 3 mobs whereas a supposed damage dealer can't. Or because you're a "Healer," you can outlast people just because you have a load of heals. The powers should be proportional then. The damage dealer should do proportionally more damage so he can take out the same 3 damnable mobs at a time that a tank can, or the 5 a healer like cleric can. Can anyone honestly tell me that that's so impossible? Group roles are all good, but do we HAVE to restrict "leaders" to the Tanks, and the Clerics in here?
It doesn't really make that much sense..
Anyways, yeah, this is my first post. I was going to do the whole thing that Ryoku did, but now I don't have to take the time!
- and can go to bed an hour early. Ha. Thanks!
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Meiyen
Desciple
Karma: +3/-3
Posts: 48
Lao'Jin Knight, Juritor of Silk Wisdom
Re: A Humble Monks Opinion.
«
Reply #14 on:
March 27, 2007, 03:00:12 PM »
Re-roll in MMOGs generally means delete the character and make one of a different class, not a different one of the same class.
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Meiyen
, Kojani Dragon Monk, Lao'Jin Knight, Juritor of Silk Wisdom
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