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Author Topic: May not stick around after this  (Read 2068 times)
Soluss
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« on: March 22, 2007, 09:15:11 PM »

While I do realize this may make some of you happy, it saddens me...These are probably only the begining of changes yet to come.  Next will probably be insta travel, no xp debt, no item repair... all these things attracted me to the game and they are taking them away one by one.  Coupled with the monk issues that are ignored, Im not even sure how much more I can take...............


The following two updates will be going live with the next server restart:

 

Adventuring Kill Experience Update

Experience rates for killing NPCs have been increased significantly.  The experience changes start as a small amount at low levels and scale up to a large amount in the early twenties. From then on, the increase remains fixed.  This increase should be very noticeable for players above level fifteen.  This change is in response to actual player leveling times not meeting our original target times within many different subsets of the player population.  This increase will bring us much closer to our goal without exceeding it.

 

NPC Hit Points

Challenge level two and three NPCs have had their hit points reduced at levels above ten. It will be a small, but increasing reduction per level.

 
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2007, 11:57:57 PM »

At Level 23 I find the rate of XP to be fine.  The problem is not the XP you get per kill but the time taken to form a group and get to the content.  The game is already way past the "preserve the vision" stage and well into the "save the day stage".  So far, the effort to reward ratio is way off, but changing the XP does not in my opinion reflect an understanding of the problem.  In any 3 hour play session you're likely to spend no more than an hour of that actually deriving any benefit.  Frustration levels during play seem exceedingly high and are driven by:


  • difficiulty forming groups even in larger guilds
  • very long times taken to form groups, linked to the above and
  • in particular very slow travel times
  • bugs impeding enjoyment of the game especially the group related bugs
  • leading to generally high difficulty in quickly accessing group content


Regardless of that I am very happy with anything they do at the moment to help with retention.  I have to apologise for taking a contrary position to your view but right now, at this point in time, I would say that insta-travel (group summoning), minimal xp-debt, and no item repair are all very good ideas.  I loved EQ1, it was a golden experience, but I think given the progression to date in this genre, and my experience in Vanguard, trying to recreate that experience is a flawed concept.

I would say that from a commercial position the game is at a pivotal point when the focus needs to be on getting players to the content and ensure they are have fun doing it.  The vision thing might have succeeded, but the game bugs, design flaws, and lack of robsutness mean that the vision per se if no longer commercially viable (putting aside discussion as to whether it might have been flawed fromt he outstart).

From what I have seen of a statisically sound sample we are getting around 60-75% attrition so far, some of those people may return but these numbers are not healthy.  For the sake of Vanguard I hope they make some good commercial decisions focuses on player retention and inately acknowleging that a MMORPGs success is driven by the fun factor which right now is surely absent.

I am keen for the game to succeed, I just think it requires a pragmatic attitude at this point.
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Atif
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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2007, 09:53:41 PM »

Being a player over level 30, I feel that the reduction of HP for 2 and 3 dot mobs was needed.  Even now it's not a huge one, but it is sometimes noticable.  As for the experience increase, this as well was rather slight, and has not stopped me from getting far better XP raging through quests or missives with a group then I do running through dungeons killing 4 dots over and over, regardless of if there are quests related to those 4 dots.  The 4 dots themselves take so long to kill, even when in a good group, that the value of the dungeon is really the experience of a difficult series of battles, along with the prize offered by a substantially more difficult quest or mob at the end.

As for instant travel, it is already in to a certain extent with the continental teleporters, and the porters which will take you to the far sides of Qalia.  I do believe that in order to survive the lack of instant travel options, the game needs to have instant travel spells of some sort.  As mentioned above, the ability to summon your party members is currently in, but it only functions properly in dungeons, and even then most dungeons are still not considered "dungeons."

I believe the more rapid forms of travel in early days were going to be boats, and that would certainly cut down alot on much of the continental travel which goes on.  I believe that they should go back to the drawing board and think about what they could do to make boats a viable 20+ option, rather then basically restricting it to 30+ and crafters.  This could even be done with some sort of tiny skiff option.

Also, expanding on the non-instant and experienceless travel areas would be a big help.  Get all of the boats working properly, remove the teleporters, have a more frequent series of automated smaller boats to replace the teleporters which take you from Khal to Ahgram, Upper Defense Bunker, and whatever that place on the western coast is.  Yes, it would take longer, but you would have the option to get off anytime you'd like.

They could also consider adding in actual caravans, and not just the group ones they have in currently.  I often have to go to Southwatch from New Targanor.  Southwatch is surrounded by defensive structures, forts, and other things which obviously require more and more varied supplies then the little grouping of huts at Southwatch can provide.  Add in a Caravan which goes from New Targanor to Southwatch, make it a quest you start at the main gate.  It can move quickly, follow you like other things in quests do (only on the road), and you get a small reward afterwards, as well as having random but level appropriate quest bound (so others can't attack them) bandits which run in from behind trees 0, 1, or 2 times depending on random chance.  Obviously this could work for other locations as well.

These are just my thoughts, and I feel that they're not things which are unrealistic, or would add overly much overhead to the game as it is now.  It would also help to make the world feel more complete, as though each community and location actually are real places, with real people, with needs and wants.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.  I'm sorry if it was a bit long winded.  Smiley

-Atif
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« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2007, 06:44:42 AM »

There's a lot of complaints I understand, but this isn't one of them. [To OP]

It's still 2X or more WoW, and I think it's harder than EQ ever was. They didn't adjust is so that you level to 50 in a week of normal hardcore play.

My bigger complaint is that everything feels like a grind. There's just not enough cool places to go. Instead of grinding through levels we should be out there adventuring and seeing all the cool stuff and have dings come as a bonus to good hard fun.

I like hard, I wish they'd take down all the glowing Quest signals and the red tick that shows the way to places and I wish instead of a map with trails they'd give you a blank sheet on the computer and make you draw the map. Anyway, I think maybe the XP isn't the real issue.
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Khana Kopnisien
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2007, 08:35:00 AM »

I personally feel XP is right where it should be. I can spend 5 hours online every day and gain half a level a day at 32... that's not over the top considering I die twice tops per day.

However, I wouldn't want there to be no debt at all, no corpse runs, too fast travel, etc. I left EQ2 because - besides my talent for chosing borked classes like its Troubadour and this game's Monk - travel was way too fast and debt meant nothing.

In my opinion, it should work like this:
1) Debt fairly high, even slightly more than now even with tomb recovery. Why? Stupidity and folly should not be rewarded. Players should get to know their own and eachother's skills and play accordingly.
2) Fast travel... suppose you have an area in a fictive expansion that would take you from level 62 to 67. I'd love it if you had to travel to and fro until you are at least 64, at which point:
a) Either a short, faction-based quest grants you a special means of getting there (a locket granted by a queen as a reward for continued service, a rare gem that can be used to activate a teleporter shrine every X hours, etc)
b) Either a long, strung-out quest that grants you quite the same means.
Why? To make sure you feel like you've accomplished something AND to make sure you meet some people on the road, see the sights on the way there, making travel count.
3) Repair: should be the way it is now, possibly a tad higher post 30. Before thirty, it's a money sink, post 30, it's a slight cut out of your already large budget.
4) Corpse runs: they build community, they allow particular classes to shine (mainly rogues and healers for now), they make sure you don't try the same thing again without reconsidering your tactics if you die deep within a dungeon. No way in hell do I want them to go.
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2007, 09:04:19 AM »

There's a lot of complaints I understand, but this isn't one of them. [To OP]

It's still 2X or more WoW, and I think it's harder than EQ ever was. They didn't adjust is so that you level to 50 in a week of normal hardcore play.

When did you start playing EQ?

When the game was released, it was 10 times harder than this game ever was.There were no double xp weekends. No little quest dots. When you died you went back to bind, not the closest altar. They did not change xp rates to suit the casual player who complained it was too hard to level. Do you think Vanguard will ever have a Veeshan's Peak in its original form? Vanguard has a lot of potential, but if Brad and Co. continue to drop the ball  this game is going to be nothing more than a bad memory. Lord of the Rings Online comes out on the 24th, Age of Conan comes out around Oct./Nov., and Warhammer: Age of Reckoning is scheduled for Winter 2007/2008. Say goodbye to subscriptions if they do not make drastic changes. Hell, I have already started with LotRO, basically enjoying the $10 a month game until I get into AoC/WAR Betas.
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2007, 09:54:41 AM »

Actually I am glad I did not renew my account. I hate how SoE destroys good games, and even though VG needs  LOT of help (and probably about a year for the general subscriber's computer to be on par with the game's requirements) This thread makes me wish I never even purchased the game.
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2007, 09:50:58 AM »

Hehe, yeah, this game is far easier than EQ ever was.  When EQ was first released, the learning curve was harsh.  I died many, many times as a newb and lost tons of corpses.  4-5 years (possibly more, cant remember) they introduce corpse summoning, which was a bad idea in my opinion.  This game is released with a "corpse run" no more than 3km away from your corpse and the ability to summon your corpse right away.

Plus, the highest end content in the game, can be done in a week with ease.  Rahz Inkur is like a joke.  Oh no, Majordomo hits for 1.5k and has a lot of HP! Oh lol, he's dead, nvm.  Only gotta kill him 4 more times to get something useful.  In EverQuest, you had stuff like Nagafen and Vox right away, which were DEEP inside a dungeon, and were extremely difficult to defeat.  Not just that, but it took hours to arrive at them.  Rahz Inkur, when we want to kill Majordomo or Seskarlan, we just avoid 70% of the mobs and arrive at the desired named n under 25 minutes with ease.  We've even found a way around that, and can go from Khal to a targetted named in under 15 minutes.

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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2007, 09:27:13 PM »

OMG Naggy and Vox... those were the days.. "Omg who agro'd her... CAMP A CLERIC SHE"S IN SAFE HALL"   uglystupid2  I agree VG has nothing on old EQ hehe. Ever had a bad Fear Break?
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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2007, 12:01:50 AM »

I used to love the fear break-in's.  I remember our guild actually coming to the rescue of others that had bad break-ins.  We had some very good people and it was a ton of fun, everyone huddled on the little spot on the wall.

I don't think anything can touch those early EQ raids.  That's truly where raiding got it's start in my opinion.  Watching the single file line of us running out of vox or naggy's room was always hilarious with the limited resist gear that was available at that time.
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2007, 04:45:42 AM »

Quote
I don't think anything can touch those early EQ raids.  That's truly where raiding got it's start in my opinion.  Watching the single file line of us running out of vox or naggy's room was always hilarious with the limited resist gear that was available at that time.


QFT Smiley

Still remember the first time i run into a brownie camp at around lvl 5  >_<
Our first fear raid
How much I hated Phinigel camping
so many memories...

However I think the first MMO you play sticks with you and is special in terms that nothing can get that feeling back. No matter what you played first, it will have that special place in your heart.
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2007, 08:20:22 AM »

...Fippy to gate!
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« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2007, 03:03:59 PM »


How much I hated Phinigel camping


I hated Phinny with a passion. 31 kills before dropping the piece for my Wizzy epic. It seemed like every other kill netted the Bard piece though.../grumble
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« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2007, 05:07:07 PM »

Quote
I hated Phinny with a passion. 31 kills before dropping the piece for my Wizzy epic. It seemed like every other kill netted the Bard piece though.../grumble

It took me 42 attempts to get my piece for the wizard epic  crazy2
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« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2007, 06:29:17 PM »

2 for me i got lucky friend had over 1000 kills on those bone dragon things for his hide for SK epic though

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