5% is not reliable enough to call it utility in any way. It's just a small small perk every 10 or 20 mobs. If they insist on not giving us any reliable utility, then up the damage and get rid of the proc all together.  I seriously don't understand why its ok for X# of classes to have a reliable stun in addition to the rest of their utility, but its not ok for monks to have it.

The way it seems to me, after 46 levels is that they don't want monks to have any utility whatsoever, besides FD. Sure nerve strike is ok in a pinch, IF you aren't pulling, pulling makes it useless. But if this is going to be the theme, then we should do more damage than anyone else, no matter how SNARFin long the fight is.

The duration is fine as it is, it just needs to proc more.
This will give use utility, survivability and will add more dps given vs. dps taken.  So in a sense we are getting more dps on target without incurring dps to us.

Right now its to random and infrequent to be considered anything but a side effect.
Some more consistency would allow us to be more strategic with our secrets.  My tanking friend actually doesn't like it when his target gets stunned as he loses the control on the mob if he needs to move it.

Some scenarios its going to work out great, like soloing or off tanking, others it may be a wiper because you froze the tanks target and he couldn't move it out of the path of some patrol that just walked by.

Increase damage on other abilities, ice I use for slight dps increase but moreso for the stun effect.

Just my thoughts.

It appears to me that the only real reason for the devs to want to limit the duration of Fire and Ice to 20 seconds is because of the Jin requirement, such that constantly keeping one of them active requires constantly expending Jin. From a dev perspective, I suppose this makes sense as it balances the ability. I'm just not sold on managing that for nothing more than some flavor.

On a side note, I'm not sure about this but are Monks the only class that must manage a dynamic outside of both energy and endurance (i.e., Jin)? I'm not aware of any outside of Disciples possibly. If so, perhaps this is why they are having a hard time balancing us.

What about the following proposal?

- increase the damage component of Fire and Ice significantly (say an additional 40-50%); keep Celerity as is now
- increase the proc rate of Fire and Ice to 20%
- lower the freeze effect of Ice from 4 seconds to 1.5-2 seconds
- increase the duration of Fire and Ice from 20 seconds to 60 seconds
- Increase the duration of Celerity from 20 to 30 seconds
- decrease the reuse timer on Celerity from 30 mins to 10 mins
- add a 10 minute reuse timer to both Fire and Ice

This allows both Fire and Ice, when fully utilized to their potential by the player to add some decent DPS to the mix but not as a complete freebie (i.e., a buff that is cast once and can be forgotten about for the next 60 mins).

And I don't think it's realistic to request a significant proc rate on the freeze effect as long as the duration is 4 seconds like it is today. I can definitely see that being overpowering as most fights only last 15-20 seconds anyway.

I think the key is the re-use timer. If they want these to be nothing more than "flavor" than I suspect we'll never see a duration change. The other approach would be to make them add significance to the class while limiting any potential for abuse. The 30 mins on Celerity today is a little too much. I think 10 mins is reasonable although I probably wouldn't be too upset if it was 15 mins either.

To give flavor.. haha.. I'm sure glad they have time to work on our "flavor" instead of working on the base concerns of the community.

While we sit here and see others say to us "you got love" and such... while it was only to add "flavor".

Seriously... what is the point of even having the skill? It's almost a waste of Jin to use in it's current form.

Aye, I mostly agree that the duration as it is now isn't really a big issue. I think the larger issue is that neither Fire or Ice add too much as only being "flavor". I'd like both to be more in line with Celerity with regards to usefulness, which is currently balanced through a 30 minute re-use timer. I think that's the right approach, I just think the re-use is too long.

I guess what I'm suggesting is, make all 3 abilities equally useful and on similar, reasonable re-use timers that give the entire line some consistency. I say let the abilities themselves (i.e., fire DoT, freeze effect, multi-attack) be the flavor, not the results of them.