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Vanguard Monks  |  Monk Discussion  |  Monk General  |  Requesting help with race debate please! >< « previous next »
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Author Topic: Requesting help with race debate please! ><  (Read 1084 times)
Nyari
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« on: March 20, 2007, 07:29:39 AM »

Hiya!

I tried a few classes and in the end just found the monk class to be my favourite despite the problems with bugs/stances/dps etc.. that my fellow monks have expressed concern with. The problem is, my friends have made characters within the Kojani race, so to be able to enjoy my game time with them I did the same. Here is where my problem comes.

I have an understanding of how race stats and attributes work, but at the same time, have found myself having a hard time finding a look that I like as a Kojani Human, and the only look that I really like alot is the character that is a half elf and because of this, I started levelling my monk as a half elf who is currently level 12.  I have spoken to my friends and found myself to be more confused, as some say because half elf provides 2 int/1 dex/1 vit, therefore I am losing 3 attribute points with that race as a monk doesn't really have much of a use for int and vitality. Therefore, some recommended my rerolling as a Kojani Human so I can make use of all my attributes, which I do undertand. At the same time though, others have said that is isn't a huge difference if I did choose half elf and to go with whatever race I like the look of.

I also read a guide explaining attributes/racial stats and it said that no matter what race you choose as a monk, you will be able to max 3 stats. So I thought, well if that is the case, then I can go with Half elf as monk's really only need to spec in str/dex/con. But then I was told that the info was incorrect and it wasn't possible to max 3 stats if I wen't Half elf and that I would be losing somewhere of around 150 attribute points if I did choose that race.

So having heard all this, I decided it would be more of a help if I asked my fellow monks what their opinion/advice would be and if possible, to breakdown the attributes if need be so I can see if and how many attribute points I may be losing should I continue with my half elf monk. As I said, I have researched some on attributes and racial stats, but have found myself quite confused at the moment due to being told the information is wrong, while others claim it is correct, so now I am not sure if I am going to have a huge loss or not staying as I am.

Any reply is very appreciated and I thank you in advance for any advice with this and hope to understand my choices a little better in the process. Smiley
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Soluss
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« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2007, 08:08:03 AM »

Ah, i wasnt going to post no more but..

I went kojani human.  I am able to max str and dex and almost max con every level.  Not only that but the racial heal really helps out in different situations... you can use it to take on a bad ass mob once in a while.  You can use it to save your ass.  You can also use it to save someone elses ass.
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Lomash
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« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2007, 09:46:51 AM »

1. It works like this:

Humans can raise each attribute to a max of 5 per level.
Humans get 14 points to spend per level.

Other races can only raise each attribute a max of 4 per level.
They get 10 points to spend.
4 of those points are already allocated for them.


2. No matter which race you pick, You'll want to put points only into Str, Dex, and Con.
Vitality is of very limited use to a monk because they have no energy to recharge. It only affects how much dull pain heals for.
Wisdom does absolutely nothing because you have no energy bar and no spells that crit.
Intelligence is of no use for a Monk because he has no spells. Everything is jin based, which goes off Strength for it's damage.
This is actually a blessing for Races who have their stats geared towards Str, Dex, and Con, but renders useless races like the Half Elf.



3. The Half Elf. Every level you automatically get +2 Int, +1 Dex, +1 Vit. Then you have 10 points to spend freely. You'll put those into Str and Dex, then Con, with a max of +4 for each. This will give you +4 Str, +5 Dex, +2 Con, +1 Vit.

A Human, in contrast, has no points allocated automatically, and gets 14 to spend. So you end up with +5 Str, +5 Dex, +4, Con.

Now, if you're wondering what the point is in not taking a human, it's this: Races that allocate +2 or +3 of a stat per level, when combined with the +4 you can spend, gives you a potential +6 or +7 of that stat.
Races that give +1 on a stat just means you can reach +5, putting you potentially on par with a Human in that given stat.

So the Half Elf ends up wasting 3 points. You end up with +4 Str, +5 Dex, +2 Con.
And the Half Elf Racial is terrible IMO.
The Half Elf also has a racial ability that all elves get, which gives them a plus to mana regeneration - Also something that a Monk has no use for.



5. Kojani, Qualithari, and Mordeb humans are all excellent choices. They all have good combat racials and allow you to get a nice stat distribution of 5 str, 5 dex, 4 con. Humans also get +10 to weapon skills, which either gives then a small damage bonus.

The Qual and Kojan racial are both going to buy you more time in combat, with one basically making you immune for 10 seconds and the other instantly healing you for a good amount.

I like swiftness of sands because it recharges faster and is evasion based to avoid any stuns that may come your way. But the Kojan one is useful for when your healer needs an emergency recharge of mana, or if a team member is going down fast and the only way to save them is with the help of it's instant heal.

The Mordebi racial I haven't used, but it sounds useful enough. It basically freezes the target into an unbreakable stasis for a set period, which can be good if you need to buy time bylocking an add out of the fight for a while.


6. The rest of the races are:
Orcs +2 con +2 Str, +2% mitigation.
Globins +3 vit, +1 int, +2% evasion.
Dark Elf +2 Int, +1 Dex, +1 Wis, +2% mana regeneration.
Raki +2 Vit, +1 Dex, +1 Int, +2% melee evasion.

In terms of efficient stat distribution, all of them are out except the orc. +6 Str, +4 dex, +4 Con



7. Many argue that in the long run race doesn't even matter, because what you gain from racial bonuses is not much compared with the boosts you're getting from your gear.
The difference between +4 Str and +5 Str at level 50 is just a base of 40 more points. So it's not something that will break you.
Based on this many recommend you pick whatever race you prefer, and consider which racial abilities you would prefer.

Personally I like to min-max stats as much as possible, and wanted to be a Kojan Human anyway.




« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 01:39:59 PM by Lomash » Logged
Nyari
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2007, 01:26:55 PM »

I do agree with you Soluss, the Kojani's racial is really handy and the half elf's racial is pretty crappy in comparism that's for sure, so that is something to think about too.

Lomash, thank you very much for breaking that down for me, it has given me a much greater understanding of attributes and racials and I appreciate you taking the time to type all that out for me in point form, which is exactly what I needed. Thankyou!

Thank you both for replying, much appreciated!

In response to the posts above and after talking with a couple other monks, it is true that those 40 points I lose in Dex isn't really that much, but I also noticed after reading your post Lomash, that I will also be losing 90 con points as well. And yes you are right in how the half elf's racial is pretty much crappy in comparism to others, so I am now wondering if the 40 dex and 90 con will make a substantial difference, especially when say I am in a raid with a couple other monks who have chosen say, the human race. See the thing is, if we are in the same group/raid, we will receive the same buffs, so even with buffs I am going to be short 40 dex and 90 con, unless I have better gear then them to cover my losses in those stats. So I am wondering in comparism to another monk who chose a human, would it be a noticable loss if I was a half elf monk, putting the above into the equation?

Oh, one other thing, depending on the above, I decided to have another look at a couple other races and notice that I could probably make a decent looking monk as a Qaliathari human that I do like more then a kojani human, and as you stated their racial trait is quite handy too. I was wondering if I did choose this race for my monk, would it be difficult to meet up and quest with my friend's who are part of the Kojani race in Tanvu?

I thank you again for any and all replies, it's very appreciated. Smiley
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 01:40:15 PM by Nyari » Logged
Soluss
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2007, 01:50:24 PM »

Not sure where you start on Qalia.. however if you get to a dock area you can pretty much port to either Tanvu or to Cal' Brael(sp) then to Tanvu from there.  So it probably would not be that hard.
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Lomash
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« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2007, 02:27:59 PM »

90 con and 40 dex will make a difference, but it won't gimp you compared with the monks next to you at level 50.

You can teleport to Tanvu or CB from Khal, easy.

I'd personally reroll a Qual monk, because you can get more the look you're going for; Better racial, better stats.
Unless you're going for concept, there's nothing to be gained going Half Elf.







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LeadFoot
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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2007, 02:29:36 PM »

Gear will help you over come your stat differences.  It is not a matter of whether you have better gear than the next guy, it is a matter of what gear you choose.  Does your gear have more str than dex, or maybe more con.  I myself went with Orc.  Their racial bonus is pretty good as it gives me hp back for every hit for like 7 seconds or something.  And being harmonious, I am bound to crit within 7 seconds and can generally refill my entire hp bar.  Plus I get 6 str per level.  So I get more str than kojani, but less dex.  It is all a matter of play style and your likings.  Play what you like.
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Nyari
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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2007, 03:08:10 PM »

Oh that's good to know that it won't be too much of a hassle to meet up with my friends in/around Tanvu should I choose to be a Qual monk.

After reading the replies from my fellow monks, I do now understand that 40 dex and 90 con isn't a very noticable difference in the long run, even in comparism to other monks who chose a more 'suitable' race. At the same time though I also see the benefits of choosing a human and I too agree that the half elf's racial isn't near as beneficial as a Qual or Kojani's racials. So while it wouldn't be a significant difference losing 40 dex/90 con and a not so useful racial, like Lomash said, it also doesn't gain anything staying as a half elf.

Leadfoot, I understand what you mean how it is more about what stats you have on your gear then having better gear than the next guy. While my monk is not a high level, I do have pretty good gear for her level and have both strength and dex. Although, I have a bit more strength then dex at the moment and will probably keep adding more strength and/or replacing some of my gear that has a bit of both with gear that has more strength. I noticed when checking a couple forums due to the changes in the last few patches, it was advised and seemed to be more beneficial to invest more in strength then having dex as the highest stat out of the three we use, those being str/dex and con.

Making an orc would be perfect for a monk who is having strength as their dominant stat, but too be honest, I don't really like the looks of the female orcs lol, I mean crap I'm having a hard time trying to find a look that I like on a Kojani human let alone finding a look that I would like on an orc hehe. However, having the orc's additional stats would be wonderful, but it doesn't seem to be what I like when it comes to appearance.

I know it must seem that I am concentration alot on looks, it is true that I spend alot of time when making my characters in games until I find the look that I really like. At the same time though, I have always had my stats as a top priority and wouldn't sacrafice the stats for an appearnce if it would put my character at a noticable disadvantage. You should have seen me when I played WoW, my friends teased me all the time because I would have multiple sets of clothes that I would change into frequently, but the good thing was that I was able to find gear that looked great and had stats on them that were on par with some of the better gear around..typical female I guess, what can I say hehe. Tongue

Anywho, thankyou to all who posted, it is appreciated and I have a much better understanding of the attributes and racials as well as understanding the pro's and con's for the races available for the monk class. Like you all said, it pretty much now comes down to what I wan't now, instead of thinking a certain choice was going to gimp my monk.

Thanks guys. ^^

P.S Thanks for putting up with my babble and walls of text.  embarassed
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 03:11:41 PM by Nyari » Logged
Lomash
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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2007, 04:06:09 PM »

In case you didn't know; You can change the look of your character at any time after you've made it. Hit the customize button on the character screen and you can fully customize your look all over again.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 04:07:49 PM by Lomash » Logged
Nyari
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« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2007, 04:54:42 PM »

Oh yah I found out about that the day I got the game after spending hours just in the character creation screen lol..I often customise my characters just for something different every so often, although, it is a different story when it is the actual look of the particular class. Like with my situation, you can't jump from being a kojani human to say a Qual human for obvious reasons of course, but that is where I am stuck atm.

I am however, starting to lean towards creating a Qual monk as I have been fiddling around with the character creation and think I found a pretty good look on her that I wouldn't mind having as my monk's character. Not to mention their racial trait is quite handy too. ^^
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Dythan
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« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2007, 09:56:58 PM »

Have you all actually gotten the Qalia human racial ability to work.  I hit it in emergenices and it says it's healed me 100 and then I die.
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Lomash
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« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2007, 10:43:13 PM »

Have you all actually gotten the Qalia human racial ability to work.  I hit it in emergenices and it says it's healed me 100 and then I die.

The Qualian Racial, Swiftness of Sands, is a 10 second buff that basically grants you 100% evasion. The only time I've had it fail on me was when I had my back to a target, and failed to evade.
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Deinnun
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« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2007, 02:58:21 AM »

My opinion based advice is to stay with your halfelf. You did choose it as the first choice and that is often based on the feel for the character, you chose it because you liked it. I think that is more important than the minor difference in stats. You may end up not liking your Qaliatharian if you reroll.

I play a halfelf harmonious myself and will never reroll. A guildie plays a Qaliatharian harmonious monk and we are both 24. The difference between us is not that big, hardly noticeable. He is using a lot of crafted DEX gear but seems to have hit some kind of cap in DEX. I myself is using a mix of STR+CON, STR+DEX and some DEX only like the infineum robe where I chose the DEX robe unlike other monks who went for the dodge one. There is also an abundance of different jewelry with a mix of stats to choose from.

Minmaxing is not a requirement. I know people who played halfelf druids in EQ, the worst race of them all for that class. In the end they were equally competitive as the other races.
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