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Abilities you use / dont use?
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Topic: Abilities you use / dont use? (Read 1175 times)
Slayed
Desciple
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 33
Abilities you use / dont use?
«
on:
March 14, 2007, 09:15:45 PM »
First time poster. I am only 14 but I am curious if anyone else bothers or even uses certain abilities and if not used maybe we can get a change. This is just what I have noticed so far. I used to play a monk in EQ so they are near and dear to me.
Feedback and ideas please, and if you disagree why so we can know what some of us may be missing.
Iron Hand. Nice in theory but lasting only 60 seconds I basically forget to keep it active unless im worried about the fight going bad. It seems pretty important to dps yet is just rather annoying. Id prefer a toggle that drains Jin a BIT faster but stays on as long as we have Jin.
I know people will just say im being lazy and just do it or macro it yet needing a macro to keep a primary ability going every 60 seconds kind of proves my point anyway
Jin Surge. Waste of Jin? I never use it and when I do in groups has no effect anyone can really tell. Maybe make it give you a higher chance to crit your next attack or something to make it worthwhile?
Whirling Storm. Only useful on lower level mobs and using so much endurance most seem to prefer to just kill a mob fast and move on to the next. Spamming the ability using all endurance hurts the mobs yes, but barely. A sorcerer using his AE and all endurance the mobs are pretty much dead. Hike the damage a bit or lower endurance cost?
Stinging Backfist. Countdown time rather quick but since its after a dodge im always missing it because I hit an attack just as I hear the sound it activated. Maybe allow it to stay active even if you attack with something else but keep its quick countdown.
And lastly is it just me having bad luck on weapon skillups? Using only fists since I started and have never been able to max the hand to hand skill seems odd.
Even with all the problems and the stances borked still love my monk.
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Xeliso
Recruit
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 24
Re: Abilities you use / dont use?
«
Reply #1 on:
March 14, 2007, 10:12:01 PM »
Jin Surge works just fine, and it's actually AE of the radius not group only. Dunno if the reading says allies in area or group in area.
And whirling storm is useful in certain situations.
I was AE grinding many levels ago with DoTers in my group. I would macro Jin Surge and their DoT's would crit for pretty good damage, then with my Crane stance and cleric renewal I was able to spam AE.
So yeah those 2 abilities are pretty useful in certain situations.
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Xeliso
50 Harmonious Monk
Council Elder of Pain
Gulgrethor Server
Soluss
Sensei
Karma: +45/-59
Posts: 335
Re: Abilities you use / dont use?
«
Reply #2 on:
March 14, 2007, 10:27:07 PM »
I always keep my iron hand up if solo. I try to in groups but I dont always bother because mobs die so fast that the little extra dps isnt worth the hassle of it.
I never use jin surge .. too much jin for little effect
Whirling storm I loved when fighting low level grey mobs to kill quickly for skinning.. dont use it otherwise.. too much end cost for little damage
Stinging backfist.. I try to use it when its up if there are no other chains up at the same time and if I catch it in time. Alot of times the refresh from the previous skill is too slow and the timer runs out at the same time. However if I can get it off I do as its a end free hit.. Mind you this is since our revamp on those ... prepatch I never used it as it was too much end for too little damage that I could do better damage with less end on normal skills
I think weapon skill ups have been fine with me. At lvl 30 I brought my marital sword up from 0.. yeah it took a while but I expected it too.. i general get about 10 points per mob or so dont really pay attention, I only tried in groups so I didnt have to worry about missing.
I still love my monk too but they need to fix the FD . WHole reason I made one is because i love FD pull.
other skills that i use the least..
waning palm and goading slap
secret of fire ... seems useless
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Gbrap
Recruit
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 6
Re: Abilities you use / dont use?
«
Reply #3 on:
March 15, 2007, 05:28:03 AM »
Jin Surge + Feet of the Fire Dragon? (the dragon style dot)
if it crits you will do 1000 and more dmg per tick.. which is not bad
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Leishiu
Sensei
Karma: +7/-6
Posts: 318
Re: Abilities you use / dont use?
«
Reply #4 on:
March 15, 2007, 05:52:53 AM »
Jin Surge V (level 44) makes a really large jump compared to previous ranks. It adds ~400 - and if everyone lands this as a normal (non-crit) attack in your group, it's 2400 damage for 5 jin, one of our more potent powers. If you have dotters, it adds up some pretty freaky damage - in particular if the dots crit. For personal purposes, Jin surge followed by a normal critical ashen hand gave ~3800 hits, normal is ~2800-3000 (albeit, that does include bard song).
Boundless Fists is to much endurance for the result compared to our other abilites. Although, I'm not a dragon monk.
I would like to say I use our AoE's, but the only few times I have is when I've tanked multipulls during faction killing (it will outdamage healers, but that's about it), the finisher is a joke. Before the weapon skillup-fix, I would use AoE's to quickly skill up new weapons. That was really where it saw the most use.
Secret of Fire/Ice gets way to little use from me, really, the damage they add up is rather nice, but I just hate low duration buffs (Iron Hands enough for me) and Jin is rarely something I have much off anyhow. There's a lot of fire immune mobs, which makes secret of ice useful - and you can with both theoretically permanently keep a secret up.
Secret of Celerity/Transcendence suffers same fate - I don't use them simply because of their reuse. The fact that SoCelerity occurs a global cooldown and thus steals 2 of it's own precious seconds dosen't really make it a better power.
Tiger Pounces / Trapping Mantis Claws - Jin cost
and
5 minute reuse? To be fair, I've used them now and then when tanking to produce a finisher and lock agro fast, other than that, they are pretty useless due to the reuse.
Wave Hand in Cloud (Harmonious) - 250 DS, self only, 20 second duration. 10 jin cost, 30 minute reuse. Has to be the single most useless ability in our arsenal. It did decent damage at 26 when it was gotten (the reuse however makes you incapabile of using it effectivly, and even then it's just a solo toy) - however after that it's a joke for ability.
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Leishiu ~ Halgar (or sommert)
Soluss
Sensei
Karma: +45/-59
Posts: 335
Re: Abilities you use / dont use?
«
Reply #5 on:
March 15, 2007, 06:13:22 AM »
Well the reason i dont use jin surge is because i think i cost too much jin... I think id rather get off two ashen hands apposed to one jin surge where the ashen hands have the potential to open up a couple more fnishers.
Secrets.. i agree on the fire however i have found Ice to stun the mobs every couple hits which my survivability goes up when soloing because I take less damage. Try it out on some 3 dots... try it with and try it without... I always end up with more hp at the end of the fight with using it.
Secret of celerity.. I use this when its up alot ... it practically doubles my damage for the time its up. Again try it solo you will see how much faster the mobs dies.
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Meiyen
Desciple
Karma: +3/-3
Posts: 48
Lao'Jin Knight, Juritor of Silk Wisdom
Re: Abilities you use / dont use?
«
Reply #6 on:
March 15, 2007, 07:04:43 AM »
Iron Hand: When soloing or pulling I use a shuriken, then immediately follow it up with Iron Hand before the mob gets into melee range. No, they aren't macro'd together, its just a habit I've gotten into.
Jin Surge: I tend to not use it except for difficult mobs, and if the group is going for them then I usually ask the group to tell me when they are going to do a major damage attack and I hit it as soon as they say so they get it on that attack. It A) lets them know I'm doing something to help them and B) gets some really nice damage out there. I've also used it to help the tank keep agro.
Whirling Storm: I use it when an add joins the group. It lets me keep focus on the mob we're all targetting, and yet builds up just enough hate that the mob is on me rather than on one of the healers. Poor-man's crowd control.
Stinging Backfist: Its very nice when I get it to go off, but it does have a very quick countdown timer. Maybe if the global recharge didn't include this one? (So when I do an attack this isn't subject to the 1.5 second all-ability blackout.
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Meiyen
, Kojani Dragon Monk, Lao'Jin Knight, Juritor of Silk Wisdom
Journal
Vinjin
Master
Karma: +3/-1
Posts: 97
Re: Abilities you use / dont use?
«
Reply #7 on:
March 15, 2007, 07:44:10 AM »
I no longer use Deadly Adder Hand much. Even after update #1 that allowed Harm monks to finally get the upgraded version, it's simply waaaay too much endurance for the effect/damage it does. This is disappointing too b/c it is supposed to be one of the Harm monks unique abilities.
At 28, Iron Hand adds approx 15 DPS when active. Yes, I too would like to see the duration increased to something longer (60 minutes is fine) because there's no real point/immersion/logic for monks to have to micro-manage this ability while most other classes have buffs that last significantly longer.
I always use Secrets of Fire/Ice when soloing as every little bit of damage adds up. It would be nice to see the effects on these bolstered though (freeze lasts longer with increased ranks, fire disrupts NPC spells, etc).
I don't use Jin Surge much soloing (unless I know it's a tough fight going in) but in groups, it's a pretty good ability to make a habit of using since it benefits your entire group for the same jin cost.
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Chidori
Recruit
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 17
Re: Abilities you use / dont use?
«
Reply #8 on:
March 15, 2007, 07:46:47 AM »
Combo that always works for me is
'Punch that causes staggered' (cant remember the name)
Jin Surge
'Cresent kick'
BAM always a crit that opens up abilities 90% of the time because the kick exploits the weakness + has jin surge that gives the entire group a dps boost on their next hit.
exploit it as much as you can and you will be exploding with jin, enough to jin surge every single time its available.
On the contrary of most monks i barely use ashen hand, i think it sucks O.o it does too little damage, doesnt exploit any common weakness and it costs too much jin that i can use to boost my entire groups dps which ultimatly pushes out more dps than a single ashen hand, specially if you have dotters or a sorc.
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Slayed
Desciple
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 33
Re: Abilities you use / dont use?
«
Reply #9 on:
March 15, 2007, 10:53:05 AM »
Some good stuff here. Jin surge doesn't sound so bad now if you group a lot which I tend to be soloing mostly so I miss out there.
It seems if they want to up our dps lots of the abilties we are talking about need tweaked to be worth using and not cost so much. Our damage so far as I can tell comes finishers where say rangers its a main ability.
Id like to add Meditation. Does anyone really use it? I just got it and I have to say its quicker just to jump into a fight and use only Jin addition stuff. The fact you have to sit for a full 10 seconds to even START getting Jin then it goes up slowly at best just seems pointless.
Maybe if it gave a buff after 10 seconds that starts the Jin regen for X amount of time to give us a jump start at filling up and we could be running around after that 10 seconds it would be useful. Sit 10 seconds and regen jin for 10 seconds or maybe bit more.
Least most seem to agree Iron Hand is annoying. Just plain out give us that dps it adds and remove it at the most extreme. Or like i said a toggle that its "on" as long as we have X amount of Jin? Just firing out ideas.
Im curious what QTM thinks about the various abilities we are discussing and if just the "hassle" and overcost of the few we have mentioned would turn the monk class around.
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Leishiu
Sensei
Karma: +7/-6
Posts: 318
Re: Abilities you use / dont use?
«
Reply #10 on:
March 15, 2007, 11:12:08 AM »
Meditation was changed some time ago (tooltip not updated) and it takes about 1-2 to enter meditation. This might be a bug though, but it's actually decent now.
It's only real use is when you get new abilities or when you want to get a jin supply up for something. I suppose high level dragons use it when they want to invis aswell and haven't fought recently.
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Leishiu ~ Halgar (or sommert)
Chunli
Grandmaster
Karma: +12/-4
Posts: 121
Re: Abilities you use / dont use?
«
Reply #11 on:
March 15, 2007, 11:47:25 AM »
Quote from: Leishiu on March 15, 2007, 11:12:08 AM
Meditation was changed some time ago (tooltip not updated) and it takes about 1-2 to enter meditation. This might be a bug though, but it's actually decent now.
It's only real use is when you get new abilities or when you want to get a jin supply up for something. I suppose high level dragons use it when they want to invis aswell and haven't fought recently.
I do not use Form of the Spirit Dragon, other than for the levitate component if there is no one in the group to levitate me, which is very rarely. The invis portion is garbage, it is the same crappy stealth that you use Detection skill to see.
I really only use Meditate to learn new abilities. You can max out your Jin after 1 or 2 fights if you need to switch Aums, or build Jin for a particularly tough fight.
Pushing Hands really is pretty useless, especially for 40 END. Very few mobs have stances to drop them from, and it does nothing at all in PvP.
Nerve Strike is very situational, but I use it if the group starts getting too many adds. Although in Rahz, none of the mobs I usually fight can be CCd in any manner at all, so it is essentially useless there. If it got changed to being able to be used in combat, it would make it more useful when fighting mobs that could be CCd.
Swaying Step...I use it more now that Counters are free, and if I am offtanking something for some reason.
Storm Stride is only mildly useful as it is buggy and does not always work.
I do always try to keep Iron Hands up. It is definately worth the effort.
I always use Jin Surge when the Cleric has his short term DPS buffs up, or Shaman has the ability that makes all hits crit up. Basically if someone else has a DPS buff up, it is good to pop it. Otherwise, just hit it when you have Jin to spare and plan on landing a big hit. IE Boundless Fist, Jin Surge, Six Dragons Strike (or whatever combo your style uses for exploiting a weakness) It is just too bad using Jin Surge negates a finisher opening as it would be nice to open the chain, Jin Surge, finisher.
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Chunli (RETIRED)
50 Kojani Dragon Monk
Tharridon server
Quote
And Monks are BAD A$$
__________________
Darrin Mcpherson
Senior Game Designer
Sigil Online Games
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Quinn the Mighty
Monk Lead
Kyoshi
Sensei
Karma: +50/-38
Posts: 443
Re: Abilities you use / dont use?
«
Reply #12 on:
March 15, 2007, 11:55:14 AM »
Quote from: Slayed on March 15, 2007, 10:53:05 AM
Some good stuff here. Jin surge doesn't sound so bad now if you group a lot which I tend to be soloing mostly so I miss out there.
It seems if they want to up our dps lots of the abilties we are talking about need tweaked to be worth using and not cost so much. Our damage so far as I can tell comes finishers where say rangers its a main ability.
Id like to add Meditation. Does anyone really use it? I just got it and I have to say its quicker just to jump into a fight and use only Jin addition stuff. The fact you have to sit for a full 10 seconds to even START getting Jin then it goes up slowly at best just seems pointless.
Maybe if it gave a buff after 10 seconds that starts the Jin regen for X amount of time to give us a jump start at filling up and we could be running around after that 10 seconds it would be useful. Sit 10 seconds and regen jin for 10 seconds or maybe bit more.
Least most seem to agree Iron Hand is annoying. Just plain out give us that dps it adds and remove it at the most extreme. Or like i said a toggle that its "on" as long as we have X amount of Jin? Just firing out ideas.
Im curious what QTM thinks about the various abilities we are discussing and if just the "hassle" and overcost of the few we have mentioned would turn the monk class around.
I pretty much use all of the abilities given to me, some are rather situational and don't get much use (Waning Palm for example). I am a fan of ability to toggle abilities on and off so if I saw Iron Hands, Secret of Ice / Flame do this I would be a happy panda monk.
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Vinjin
Master
Karma: +3/-1
Posts: 97
Re: Abilities you use / dont use?
«
Reply #13 on:
March 15, 2007, 12:29:32 PM »
Yeah, they could really do some nice stuff with the Secrets line. In addition to a possible suggestion I mentioned above, perhaps make them into long duration buffs as well building in some sort of benefit/cost with each.
For example, instead of Secrets of Fire being a 20 second buff that simply adds a small amount of damage per attack, how about changing it to something along the lines of a 60 minute buff that gives a small chance to crit for epic and legendary hits. Or, what about adding a small chance to create a weakness (burning?) that can be exploitable with another attack? Same approach with Secrets of Ice. I'd like to see longer duration for both the buff and the freeze component.
The point is, make the benefits of using these buffs worthwhile. As a means of balancing this, include a cost, such as reduced resistance, or making the player more susceptable to NPC spell effects (to a reasonable degree obviously). This way, they aren't simply freebie buffs but rather make the player decide which one may be better for a particular situation.
Just some ideas.
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Chunli
Grandmaster
Karma: +12/-4
Posts: 121
Re: Abilities you use / dont use?
«
Reply #14 on:
March 15, 2007, 12:31:37 PM »
Oh yeah, totally forgot about the Secrets. As a Dragon this is kind of a touchy thing. Our stance is already kind of "meh" in that the damage does not scale as we level, can be resisted all together, it can miss (lol), or be partially resisted. If I notice Storm Dragon proccing stupidly low, I will use one of the Secrets. I really wish they would change Storm Dragon stance to something else, like extra 20% damage as opposed to the proc it is now. Then using Secrets would be something to look foreward to.
I rarely use Secret of Celerity. 30 minute timer, and only procs off specials, not in Storm Dragon stance.
I never use Dragon Stance (broken)
«
Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 12:33:35 PM by Chunli
»
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Chunli (RETIRED)
50 Kojani Dragon Monk
Tharridon server
Quote
And Monks are BAD A$$
__________________
Darrin Mcpherson
Senior Game Designer
Sigil Online Games
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