I agree about the tooltip for the Ashen Hand series being all copies....I have the 250% and +2500 on my Ashen Hand II, which sure would be fun at level 16

In all honestly I am very happy with the ability change as it was huge to my DPS.  Funny how the change made some of my skills way more useful then others post-patch, then pre-patch.

Though the revamp of our dps seems like it will be soon, once that is figured out I hope that we can begin fixing each stances skills/tool tip information.

I was sick to my stomach when they nerfed the ability damage and I was hitting like a red-headed step child.  Glad to see we are finally getting looked at and only a matter of time we are balanced.

Good job QTM and Talisker.

SECRETS, or I'm a Storm Dragon darnit

I guess I must be the only monk around that thinks the secrets are working just fine and SHOULD NOT stack with Storm Dragon.

As I see it, Storm Dragon stance allows us to be imbued with the spirit of the storm dragon thus adding lightning damage with ever hit.

Each secret that we learn allows us a small mastery of another element thus allowing us for a short duration to alter the damage that our stance gives us.  IE - as a Storm Dragon it requires great inner fortitude to transform your inner energies to a completely different element and is not something you can continually maintain.

IE - we'll ALWAYS proc something 100% with every autoattack.  Secrets just allow us to change that for a short duration depending on the situation.  I've had plenty of situations where suddenly mobs are either immune or greatly resistant to the lightning proc.  However, they are extremely vulnerable to the fire or ice proc.

Personally, I think it's fine, and I hope it stays the way it is and doesn't stack.

If you aren't a monk on the path of the Dragon, this just means it costs great inner fortitude to summon forth and maintain an elemental affinity in a body that cannot normally do such things.

Style Masteries

Also, I believe when they mention Monk base DPS is supposed to be higher than Rogue and Ranger base DPS, that means the base is either Harmonious or Drunken monk DPS.  If it uses Harmonious as base, that would mean Drunken monks would score slightly lower and Dragon monks would score higher. 

Dragon monks thus, in sacrificing the utility of the Harmious monk and the off-tanking of the Drunken monk should do damage approaching Rogues in stealth and Rangers in long fights although not surpassing rogues if they can remain stealthed the entire fight, nor rangers over a very long duration fight.

Which means Drunken monks should be appreciably the best off-tank option of all offensive fighters while doing noticeably less damage.  This obviously needs a bit of work.

Assuming Harmonious monk abilities are working, I'd assume they're about where they should be with the ability to debuff mobs in a variety of ways.  They would not do the DPS of the Dragon Monk, nor would they have the tanking abilities of the Drunken Monk.  In fact, without their debuffs, their tanking would be on par with Dragon Monks, however due to the nature of their debuffs, the can't help but tank better than a Dragon monk.  And while they may not do much more damage than a drunken monk without debuffs, the nature of their debuffs would allow them to do more DPS.  And most importantly, they would allow other classes to tank and DPS higher than they normally would.  In essence being in harmony with those around them and forcing harmony on those that oppose them.

As to seperate branches.  I'm a Dragon monk.  I'm not a jack of all trades monk.  I'm not a Drunken monk.  I'm not a Harmonious monk.  I'm aspiring to be a MASTER of the Dragon Form.

Assuming my specialization descriptions above eventually become accurate, being able to switch between all three would allow monks to be THE best offensive tank, THE best DPS offensive fighter except in special circumstances, and THE best debuffing offensive fighter in the game.

THAT would be overpowering.  However, what would be interesting is if there was a Masterless Monk.  A monk that doesn't seek to master any of the styles.  He'll never become a Dragon Master.  He'll never become a Drunken Master.  He'll never become a Master of Harmony.

Three Styles Monk, or the Masterless Monk

However, he would get ONE and only ONE stance from each style.  Most likely would be the balanced stance of each style.  So for example he would get Health regen from Dragon (assuming they ever fix it), and whichever the middle stances for the others were.

He would also get ONE and only ONE mastery line from each style.  And the maximum rank of that master would be 1 lower thank maximum rank for the true masters.

THAT would fit in perfectly with most Hong Kong style martial arts movies.  Also allowing for the jack-of-all trades type of monk.  That is good at a little bit of everything, yet master of nothing...

IE - he'll tank about the same as a Ranger in defensive, he'll be able to DPS fairly well, but obviously less than a ranger, but he'll be able to debuff more than Ranger.

While I kind of like the idea of a Masterless Monk that doesn't do anything particularly great, but can do many things fairly well, I'd prefer Verant to continue putting work into perfecting the 3 seperate and distinct styles of Monk.

My personal thoughs on the three Paths to Mastery

A Dragon Master should be able to noticeably out DPS a Harmonious and Drunken Master, while also tanking noticeably worse than a Drunken, and obviously not having many (if any) debuffs.  Such that they are in-line with a rogue who can maintain stealth 50-75% of a fight or a Ranger for the first 2-3 minutes of a fight.

A Drunken Master should be able to tank noticeably out tank a Harmonious Master, Dragon Master, and other offensive fighters.  While DPSing noticeably worse than all except possibly Bards and Harmonious Masters.

And Harmonious should obviously be able to debuff more and in more ways than any other offensive fighters, including the Bard (as they also get numerous group buffs) thus being in harmony with those around him or bringing others into harmony with him..

Regards,
Croaker
Monk on the 30th step of the path to Dragon Mastery

PS - I was originally going to post about how my DPS is noticably higher than what it was pre-patch.  Not only is Auto-attack damage significantly higher, but damage from exploiting vulnerabilities is quite noticeably higher.  Specialy ability damage and crits appear to be a wash with an upgrade in many areas and downgrade in some. 

Flying Kick and advanced finisher does slightly less on a crit, however since the adv finisher always goes off, it's a slight win for DPS.

Thousand Fists and Thundering Fists both got MASSIVE upgrades in the amount of crit damage that it does.  However, the long recast on them means that the impact on overall DPS is fairly small.  However if all three hit, it's roughly 2.5k-3.5k damage for the combo with normal crits.  Much higher with epic crits.

Ashen Hand feels roughly the same as it did pre-patch.  Crescent Kick crits significantly more often than it did pre-patch.  I'm not sure if this is just a statistical anomally or how it's meant to be.

Please remember the description of the Dragon monk is specializing in AOE attacks, not DPS.  Harmonious monk does have some debuffs, some of which can't be used unless succesful parry or dodge.  Eagle Claw is the only one I ever use in groups, as deadly adder hand does nothing noticably and is huge endurance.  However the Eagle Claw 15% mitigation debuff certainly helps my DPS.  I think harmonious will match a dragon's dps on a single target if he uses debuffs like eagle's claw.  Harmonious monk is not supposed to do less dps, they just do it differently.

That may be in the description but not in fact.  Dragons have one AoE Counterattack on a 1min cooldown that is ... ok, and another AoE that is the same endurance cost as Whirlingwhatever with a cone attack vs a radius and less damage.  Finally at 36 I got an upgrade that put it about 20 points of damage higher than the Whirlingwhatever, but with the same cone attack and same large endurance use. 

Nothing special there.

Also, Dragon doesnt have a "DPS" stance that works like the other Styles.  Storm dragon procs for half of what a secret would at my level.  And it only effects my direct attacks, not AoE attacks (which I feel it should).  Would that be a bug? 


As for Lomash's idea, I am totally against combining the forms.  I like my indiviuality.  Its the reason why I am no longer playing WoW.  I like that Shamen have a choice, and that we have a choice.  I like choices.  I just would like these choices to mean something.

Aye, the way isn't to combine the forms, IMO.

But to make each Mastery distinct yet similar enough that you are still a monk.

The base abilities represent what each monk should be able to do at it's base.  IE - It governs the base DPS, the base tanking ability of all monks, and the base utility of all monks.

All Drunken monk specials should focus on increasing their ability to offtank (avoiding damage and increasing aggro) with only minor DPS boosts from the Drunken master skills.  And then add in some flavor type skills.

All Harmonious monk specials should focus on their ability to debuff mobs.  Indirectly doing so would increase their DPS and tanking abiltiy above the base, but nothing in there should directly increase their DPS or tanking ability.  Also doing so should not allow a Harmonious to tank better or to DPS (AoE) better than a Dragon monk.  And then add in some flavor type skills.

All Dragon monk specials should focus on either AoE damage or just straight Damage.  IMO - to fit their description it should all be focused on AoE damage.  With some added flavor skills.

Rather than just generalizing the class.  I'd much rather see more focus put onto making sure each specialization is distinct and seperate in their specializations.

The absolute worst thing Verant could do at this point would turn the monk into a master of nothing and being just OK with a bunch of things.

Regards,
Croaker

Whoops, did I actually type Verant?    Wow, talk about a major slip. 

I'm sure you all know I meant Sigil.  /blush

Regards
Croaker