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Author Topic: Monk Wish List  (Read 12995 times)
Quinn the Mighty
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« on: March 01, 2007, 01:05:26 PM »

I have decided to move the suggestions from the Bug / Issue thread to here. Plaese feel free to post your own. I'll add this to the bugs / issues list as requests for enhancement.

Keep in mind we must make our goal of increasing Monk awesomeocity by at least 4 to 5 times its current levels!

Suggestions
  • put +crit on our abilities (IE boundless fist = 5% crit every time you use THAT ability, as it wont stack with white melee or anything other. This should help us crit a bit more to open up our real dps the finishers.)
  • Make certain spells, especially Iron Hand a longer lasting buff, with increased Jin cost. As is casting every minute does nothing but irritate the user. It reminds me of being a thane in DOAC when it first came out. Thanes had a self buff that you had to rebuff every 3 minutes. They finally changed it to an hour, which is much much better.
  • I suggest the class start actually using its meditation skill for something, making Iron Hand cost a full bar of jin but last for an hour would make us meditate to gether that much jin. (example at 23 my max jin is 14, so make it cost that, and 50 if Jin is 30 make it cost that etc.) This also allows us monks who use it, to keep our sanity and not have to cast it every minute.
  • More hps, but it would seem that many of our fellow monks disagree, however I think its a fair tradeoff since we get very little Utility. (Yes FD is nice, however rogues will get stealth which is even nicer, and also poisons, and I wont have to mention bards or rangers as everyone knows they got insane utility.)
  • Martial sword parry chance should be doubled, considering you cannot duel wield them like parry daggers. Monks should be the king of evasion amongst offensive fighters.
  • Monk fists and fist weapons should have their crit chance returned to 10% per hand, because they are the only class that is entirely dependent on crits to unlock their DPS. If not, the monk needs to be reworked to have it's DPS not be reliant on crits. The easiest and best path here is to just give them their crits back as it was intended.
  • To make Storm Stride more useful, it should give you 5% extra chance to crit, along with a small accuracy and damage bonus for the next attack.
  • Storm stride should not detrigger finishing moves. You should be able to active storm stride after a crit and then land your finisher behind the enemy..
  • Quivering Palm: would like to see the effect increased from 8 secs to 12 secs.
  • Ignore Pain: would very much like to see this % based instead of hard numbers or a range.
  • As a pulling class is it it possible to get a lull type ability. (This is even more relevant given the wierdness with mobs hauling arse back to thier spawn spot now when FD)
  • Crane Stance: Would like to see a slight % increase it gives to dodge and parry than what it currently gives. Perhaps make it a range that scales upward in level as well.
  •   Harmonious Stance: Doesn't seem worth using aside from abusing the stance. Perhaps if the increased the Jin regeneration or added a jin reduction to CA while in this stance.

I'll add some formatting to this later

~QTM
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Aeronis
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2007, 01:52:45 PM »

My thoughts on a few things listed there:

-Don't give monks more HP, give them more evasion. That's more fitting. Monks don't take damage, they outright evade it.

-I don't have much problem with Iron Hand as it is. It's about Jin management during combat. It's meant to take up so much jin every minute to keep it active. Making it take a full bar would force players to meditate  to activate it, which reduces flexibility and may cause as much grief as it saves in some combat situations.
Plus, you couldn't make it last an hour. It would have to last one minute per 2 jin spent.




Another wishlist item:
Allow monks to switch between forms on the fly. 
The monk gets the same amount of abilities up to level 50 as other classes, except he can only access one third of them at a time. This makes for long stretches without upgrades, gives the monk less options than other classes of similar levels, and overall results in a weak Monk.
If the Monk could switch between forms he could offset not being the best at any one thing by being quite good at so much, allowing him to dynamically plug holes in teams.


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Soluss
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2007, 02:27:09 PM »

hmm a few things... Quivering palm.. VERY HIGH end cost for 8 secs. not only that but the timer to use it goes by so fast that sometimes you cant even use it.  I have often come across just hitting a skill having it pop and having the refresh take longer then the timer befor I can use it.  Also can we get this based off of dodge.  Currently it is based off of parry in which I hardly ever parry.  Sure I can use a weapon with with added parry, but currently using weapons on a monk suck... which leads me to my next point...

Can we get a change to skills that takes you weapon into account.

Feign Death... I dont want a lull type ability,  what I want is for the fix to the current unintended "nerf" that makes the mobs run back immediatly.  Also can we get a better way in FD so that mobs that are atleast yellow dont fail against it so much.. i can see it being tougher on reds and no chance on purple but on yellows i think we should have like an 80% chance.  Currently it seems we have about a 10% chance.  Also can we get the "stay in combat corpse camper mobs" fixed when you have 3 or mobs and your FD succeeds.

Ignore pain.. agree needs to be % based and or atleast the cooldown switched to 1 minute instead of 5.  To me this is like the monk bind wound fom EQ1.  Hell i would be ok if they gave bandages back.  Also when you see Ignore pain on the trainer it is listed as a higher heal then what you get.  For Instance when i looked at Ignore Pain 2 it listed on trainer as a 500 hp heal and I was like cool thats not bad.  Then I got it and it was only like 300 something.

HP while I would not mind more I would rather see our avoidance boosted back up and give us block back.  Sure we dont have a shield but do martial artist not block moves?  Are we not martial artists?

Harmonious Body stance... in its current for is worthless.  As a test I ran from Just outside new Taganor to rastals light house with this on... quite a considerable run... I had 6 jin by then.  I would imagine that Dragons Health stance is in the same boat though I do not know as I never played a Dragon monk.

Will list more later but fix to ALL the FD bugs and a fix to our dps will make me very happy for now.
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Chieling
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2007, 02:41:36 PM »

lets make weight worth something imo.
the lighter you are, the higher your evasion/dodge/movement rating.

what about a minor version of sneak? think old school EQ1 - non line of sight(ie: behind mobs)

feign death - it need to be changed. possibly make it a skill like safe fall that you have to work on. IMO it shouldnt fail so often vs higher level mobs. The way the mobs react to FD..... it needs tweaking.

i agree, we need to have meditate worth something. Maybe have a Jin (mental) line of abilties - non combat, but utility. This could include a lull, sneak, or something along the lines of things for the monk, not group directly. This could be part where the monks have the little 'something' that sets us apart from the other classes.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 02:45:29 PM by Chieling » Logged
Aeronis
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2007, 02:55:57 PM »

I don't want to cut in on the Bard's territory by giving the Monk a lull.

We have to dispense with this idea that Monks should be pullers. That makes no sense in terms of the monk's concept, it's just a hold over from EQ1.

The bard is the puller here. With their crowd control and run speed. That fits the Bard's concept as being able to get mobs to do as he pleases through the use of song.

Monks are finely tuned fighters based on critical hits and evasion, with combat flexibility - Nothing about a monk says they should be good at pulling.

FD already has enough utility IMO as a way to exit combat, and as a way to cheat death if the team is going to wipe.


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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2007, 02:59:26 PM »

Actually Dragon Stance doesn't appear to do anything at all in its current state.  The tool tip say it regenerates health but when activated nothing happens.  You do not get a buff icon like the other two stances and I don't see my health regen increased.  The icon is the same as the shaman neutral stance icon. A red X over a blueish background. The other 2 stances have a proper graphic Icon.  I'd really like this stance to actually work. 

I'd like to see Storm Dragon get a secondary effect, maybe a small haste % or Crit % boost. 

The Dragon AE Finisher Kick could also use a damage boost and lower the refresh.

There is suppose to be a invis type skill in the 40's for Dragon. I thought it was updated in a recent patch, can't remember.

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Goji
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2007, 03:41:05 PM »

These all seem like good ideas, I especially like the ideas of increasing Dodge, Crit Rates, Ignor Pain and changing the time on Iron Hand (its a pain buffing every min.).  Hopefully they will listen and at least implement a few of these changes, especially since we dont get great utility and we are straight up fighters.
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2007, 03:46:17 PM »

I would like to see us do something unique between fights.  As it stands, most monks do not meditate between pulls because of the slow Jin regen rate.  If there were some reward for doing so, like a short duration buff, haste, +evade, ANYTHING, we might be tempted to use it.   Wink
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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2007, 03:57:02 PM »

How about if they added health regen to meditate on the same scale that Food works. It would have to update as you level on the same scale as updated foor too.  Meditation in real life can be used to heal how about here too.  That would make meditation viable enough to me.
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Leishiu
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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2007, 04:36:16 PM »

General:
Give us energy.
Make sure our Jin abilites do not count as Endurance for the abilty to regenerate endurance (unless of course this is deliberatly intended).

General Abilites:
Ashen Hand: should use weapon damage + upgradeable amout.
Jin Surge: Give it a longer reuse and increase all damage during a 6-10 second period instead of one attack by 200 (it's only benefical when dotting.)
Iron Hands: Maintained ability. Make it cost energy to sustain.
Feign Death: Lower fail rate on yellow mobs, the diffrence between white and yellow failrate is very large.
Give us a style related maintained group-buff (energy draining, so shouldn't be able to maintain it and ashen hands without outside assistance on energy regeneration without loosing energy).
Secret of XXX: Make them very draining on energy (still costing Jin to activate), remove reuse on most (obviously not on such as Secret of Celerity). Fix stacking issue with Storm Dragon and Secrets.

Finishers - have advanced finishers proc on a succesful land, rather than forcing the need of a crit.
AoE Kick (dragon): Needs to be at least doubled in damage and have it's cooldown reduced. Or same with no cooldown at all.
Flying Kick (harmonious): It dosen't scale with gear. Add weapon damage (without any multipliers)
Thousand Fists: Make it deal x% weapon damage + something,  reduce cooldown, reduce energy cost.
Make the Dragon AoE stun, the Harmonious slow-haste (and whatever Drunken gets here) finishers instead of counters. Would make them useful.

Counters:
Reduce or remove costs on counterattacks. They are not really useful in their current state. Maybe change some of them to rescues (with same effects) but in that case they need to be either downgraded a bit and/or have reuse timers.

Path abilities:
Dragon: Make the AoE Cone actually do respectable damage; possibly make it Jin based instead of endurance to reduce chain use.
Harmonious: Wave Hand in Cloud needs to have it's reuse cut down severly, be a targetable ability, and upgrade - or replaced entirely with something useful. It's a self only 20 second 250 Damage Shield with 30 minute reuse (and 10 Jin cost) currently. It's quite useless.
Autocrit abilities, auto-chain abilites: Reduce cooldown dramatically. Increase Jin (or add energy cost) if needed.

Just a few ideas.
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« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2007, 04:44:47 PM »

Another wishlist item:
Allow monks to switch between forms on the fly. 
The monk gets the same amount of abilities up to level 50 as other classes, except he can only access one third of them at a time.

Instead of this, I'd say do a revamp and ADD new abilities to each of the dragon, harmonius, and drunken mastery lines.  This would mean there was still more choice to be a monk (what mastery path to choose?) but you still got lots of options as you levelled and as many abilities as the other classes.  It would also serve further to differentiate the three types of monks.  With the more or less complete revamp they did of rogues post-release, they seem capable of adding the few extra skills necessary to do this.
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« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2007, 08:53:12 PM »

Make FD work in PvP. Invs classes can use invis to escape...kinda sucks we can't use one of our abilities to try to get away/drop combat quicky.

Add a type of snare/root for all monks. Foot sweep, shoulder toss, hip toss...the moves are out there, no reason we can't have them.

Lets see some Bo staff drops in the world pls. Have yet to see a 2HB weapon in game.

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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2007, 11:38:16 PM »

what about a minor version of sneak? think old school EQ1 - non line of sight(ie: behind mobs)

feign death - it need to be changed. possibly make it a skill like safe fall that you have to work on. IMO it shouldnt fail so often vs higher level mobs. The way the mobs react to FD..... it needs tweaking.

I agree wholeheartedly with the feign death comment. I feel there's a decent amount of problems to be solved, but the main thing that irritates me is the way anything in the encounter's level modifies feign death so horribly. It's depressing only being able to feel slightly secure versus mobs that I have no reason to fear to begin with. Feign death just having one rank (or add other random benefits to higher ranks, either way) and a set skill level such as Kick or anything else of the sort would be wonderful. My skill determining it's success or lack thereof instead of what con/dot level an opponent is would feel alot better to me. Taking it off the global cooldown would be a lifesaver, too.

I don't like the feel of using a skill and it causes endurance regeneration and auto attack both to halt in their tracks; it makes combat feel a bit forced and clunky. That however, is more a design decision in general than a monk issue. =P And having sneak ala EQ would be fun too, nostalgia's always good Cheesy I used to love the sneaky music it'd play when you snuck around crouched when they still used the .midi music system. >_>

As far as finishers go, I agree that we need our old crit back (or the suggested higher crit chance on X abilities that doesn't tie into autoattack at all), or perhaps have finishers not depend on crit at all. That, coupled with the autoattack/endurance regen reset (or GCD slowing them alot, whatever) being addressed would make me feel alright about using something other than fists/handwraps. I'd like to use a 2h staff of sorts, but the way the aforementioned things are, it feels like I'd be shooting myself in the foot to do so. Massive hit to chance to use finishers, and slower speed making the timing between skill use/autoattack/regen even more irritating to manage, all so I can crit a bit harder on normal melee? Thanks, I'll pass.

All in all, it's nice to see communication lines finally open, looking forward to it =)
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2007, 12:32:44 AM »

Really all i wish for is to be usefull  Sad

But what i would like is for my minute CD finishers and Adv. finshers  to go off a percentage like 300% plus damage  Tongue... really don't like seeing my adv. finsher hit for less than my finsher did.
Storm dragon - that adds 20% haste and 20% damage  Smiley... oh and FD that works and all my ablilties reworked.
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2007, 03:25:59 AM »

I've read most the replies here and am seeing some fairly radical changes. Some are good, some not so much, I won't go into details. I'm also a dragon, so I may be a bit biased in that regard.

I like how the monk plays now, I just want to see what we have to be tweaked, rather than the class as a whole be revamped:

We don't need a lull - Instead we need FD to not tether mobs - Tethering was unintentional, and afaik it's being fixed.

We don't need an energy pool - We have a jin pool, we just need to do more with it.

We don't need hideous debuffs - Monks are damage, first and foremost. Harmonious being the only exception in regards to debuffing, and even then it shouldn't be the end all.

We don't need hideous buffs - See above. Jin surge should be made a bit more potent, maybe have it last a couple of attacks instead of one single. I'd say, what? 3 attacks that deal 200% damage while under the surge? Simple double damage, makes up for the Jin cost.

What we do need, however, is our finishers to not be reliant on crits - OR - higher crit chances:

We need a Jin burn ability - Ashen hand as it is right now is a perfect canidate. 50 x Jin. 15 Jin at 25, 750 damage base. 30 Jin at level 50, 1500 damage base. It takes some time to gain a lot of Jin, which acts as the cool, plus other abilities take Jin as well, and it decays. Meditate before a battle, slam ashen hand. Also makes Meditate useful.

We need endurance costs to be reduced - Simple. Endurance costs are too high. 6Dragon Strike takes 28 Endurance along with Feet of the Fire dragon. Boundless is 20, and the AEs are 34. Unless you intend to spam boundless, these soak up a lot of endurance. Halving the endurance cost may be a bit extreme, but 7 - 10 points lower across the board would help immensly.

We need % based damage, not Melee based damage - What's more damage? 400% Weapon damage Plus 450  - OR - 450 Plus melee damage? Not only is melee damage rather vague, but it's vastly inferior. Unless, of course, you have a melee weapon with 200 max damage.
We need our secrets to be useful - They do bad damage, rarely proc, and stop storm stance from proccing. Awesome. Make them hit harder, more often, stack with Storm, and Pow! Fixed. Celerity needs to last 30 - OR - 60 seconds. It's a great concept, but underpowered considering it takes 8 Jin, and by the time I can use an actual art, it's 2 seconds off the top, and the time between arts must eleminate half the tick time.

We need mend to be % Based - Simply put. When we are fully geared and have 5k HP+, 700 isn't a whole hell of a lot. Oh, and make the % respectable - 30%. None of this ow! I was just hit for 4500 by this collosal 6 dot Mob! Quick! Mend for 15% of my total health!

Our Aums are cool, other than that we really don't have much in the way of buffs, as it should be to be justified in line with DPS. We don't buff people - people buff us.

Right now I think our avoidance is kinda where it should be, somewhat low. Windblades being brought back up to 20/5% parry and Harm/Drunk stances being changed aswell would help.

- - Beyond here are for Dragon Monks - -

It's been said time and time and TIME AGAIN. Storm stance is weak, doesn't take Jin correctly. Dragon Stance is borked. Stone dragon stance is cool. 40% heat/cold absorb at 30 is a good idea, although the haste debuff hurts a lot.

This whole idea of counter attacks for dragons of any sort needs to be tossed outside the window. This is mainly Dragon Sweeps it's tail. In a typical group, that is, a Tank, healer, and DPS, how often does a ranger dodge? A rogue? A bard? I'm sure it's rare.. but even if they happen to steal aggro and dodge, WHY IN GOD'S NAME WOULD THEY LAUNCH A 10 METER STUNNING AE? And why would we?

Dragon Monks AEs need a fine tuning.

Some of these I understand are not Dragon specific, but it helps all of us and it's easier to stick them here.

Whirling Storm - Awesome, I love it. Epitome of an AE, the basic badass. 10 Meters, 300 damage, unlimited targets, stupid high rape your endurance cost: Any questions? If they drop the endurance cost, it would be amazing. Massive AE damage with a few endurance regen buffs, right up our alley.

Dragon Rakes its claws - It's identical to Whirling Storm, except it's conical. Ok, that's cool, I can use it at the right angel to hit mobs we are fighting and not aggro a torrent or break mez.. but why use it over Whirling in any other way? I think it should cost jin. One AE that owns using endurance, and one that owns which uses Jin. Always have an AE available.
I'd set the cost at about 4 to 5. Now if only AEs gave a jin for each target they hit...

Dragon Sweeps its tail - AE stun is bank. One minute recast tones it down, high endurance cost balances it. However! See the above comment regarding dodge counter attacks. Make it arbitrary and it's perfect.

Divine Typhoon/Divine Avalanche - These need to not take a crit to fire, considering how hard it is to crit a full AE in the first place. Up the damage to something respectable, and a 2 minute recast is easily justified.

I think that pretty much covers dragon issues. Overall, a few minor tweaks will make us amazing. Our damage needs to be high, or AE damage needs to be high, or avoidanace needs to be mediocre, and our group buffs nonexistent.

We need to be the masters of AE damage as a Dragon monk. Rogues can outdamage us in stealth, rangers can outdamage us in long fights, but when there is 3+ mobs on the field.. better duck and cover - Bombs be dropping.

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