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December 02, 2008, 11:39:35 PM

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Vanguard Monks  |  Monk Discussion  |  Monk General  |  Chat with Talisker (Evasion, FD, DPS, and Itemization) « previous next »
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Author Topic: Chat with Talisker (Evasion, FD, DPS, and Itemization)  (Read 6475 times)
Rampage
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« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2007, 12:06:15 AM »
So we will continue to be 3rd...  Atleast thats what i gather from your post QTM. I would just like to know the reasoning behind having us 3rd when it seems all we can do is melee and ranger gets both. Sad
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Teno
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« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2007, 08:05:14 AM »
What QTM is saying is that the other class's need to WORK to out DPS US, not the other way around. WIth our current position of 3rd on the totem pole.... this is not right. We should be outputting much more dmg then what we are doing now.  Monks should be doing constant sustained good DPS, while rangers tend to start dropping bombs at the end of fights, while rogues get their DMG increased while working on maintaining stealth through the entire battle.  Where he says HUGE CHASM OF DPS would entice me to believe that the rogue and ranger do far more dmg then the monk outright atm, not having to work at all to exceed our maximum output.
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Reaktorblue
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« Reply #62 on: March 02, 2007, 10:17:05 AM »
Just out of curiousity, if they are to work to out dps us, how does that work. Do they try to work to out dps us with us using none of our special abilities? I mean lets face it, we can all mash the same buttons paying attention to whats going on and I'd honestly say neither of the two classes would put out any more effort then the other.
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Aeronis
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« Reply #63 on: March 02, 2007, 11:38:28 AM »
The Monk right now does fit the description given to us for damage output.

The Monk was never intended to be the king of damage. So why do people keep pushing for it? We've already got the top DPS spots for melee damage taken up by the Rogue and Ranger.

The key to making the monk more useful and effective is to focus on bolstering his other areas, instead of trying to make him compete with the Rogue and Ranger for DPS.

The most unique path available to the Monk is to be the ultimate evasion light fighter, while still outputting good DPS. Unfortunately this was taken away from us in the evasion nerf. (drunken)
Another path available to the Monk is to combine good DPS and evasion with team utility (harmonious).
Dragon is always going to be useless unless the damage increase is enough to justify all that evasion and utility you lose.

The first thing that needs to happen is all three paths be tweaked to rise to excel at their roles.
The second thing that needs to happen is the monk should be able to switch between forms every 5-10 minutes, to fill the roles needed on teams.
Because restricting the player to one form at a time has many fundamental flaws.
First flaw: You only get access to 1/3 the number of abilities a normal class would get.
Second flaw: Pidgeon holing yourself in one task makes no sense as a monk because there's always a class out there that will out perform you. The only saving grace for the monk form system is if they could switch on the fly to suit the situation before them.
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Soluss
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« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2007, 12:53:17 PM »
Quote from: Aeronis on March 02, 2007, 11:38:28 AM
The Monk right now does fit the description given to us for damage output.

The Monk was never intended to be the king of damage. So why do people keep pushing for it? We've already got the top DPS spots for melee damage taken up by the Rogue and Ranger.
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pdate;
DPS Numbers are in and we came in 3rd. Rogue->Ranger-> Monk -> Bard. The DPS issue is being worked on as they will turn up the dmg knob for us.

We are the highest base DPS class. This essentally means

We should beat out Ranger DPS short term as he builds builds knowledge from his enemy (Short fights we should beat them out >  20 seconds or longer on an encounter they start to take over)
We should beat out Rogue DPS while they are not using stalk to its Max potential
We should always beat out Bard DPS. As even if they were to amplify thier damage with songs we would be able to take advantage of it.

I hope that clears the picture up for some who are not sure where we are supposed to be on that.

~QTM
All things being equal Monk should win out. How I was led to understand it is that we do not try to out dps the bard, rather its the other way around that they try to catch up to us.

Reread those portions and tell me again we already are at the damage we are suppose to be. YOU NEED TO QUITE PUSHING your idea.  Im sick of hearing about it.  Its like a child that wont give up on a toy he wants.  Your idea while I admit is well thought out.  However it sucks dude. First and foremost it would way over power us.  Secondly AGAIN I DO NOT WANT TO BE THE JACK OF ALL TRADES. I want to specialize in one area while maintaining decent numbers in another.  The only thing that needs to happen is to have our DPS output raised.. which its going to be.  Have some added skills put in there... to compensate for the sore lack of skills you seem to think we have vs other classes.  Have an outright rework of all the stances... hell they could keep the stances the same with boosted tweaks and bug fixes.. 2 stances need to be rethought as currently they are useless... however that is ok for the moment.  We need our FD fixed.

I will say this to you one more time... I like the individuality of have 3 different paths to chose... they just need to make the paths excell at there areas to make them viable and truely unique between each style.  Enough already of the we need to switch on the fly crap.  Not to mention in one sentence you say we were never meant to be the kings of DPS and in the other sentence you say that we should be the best DPS in one stance.  Then you say that rangers are equal in off tanking but then go on to say that drunken form would be king off tanking. etc.... dude which is it.
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Chunli
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« Reply #65 on: March 03, 2007, 07:06:23 AM »
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- Disciple, Monk - Monk and Disciples unarmed damage is treated like a weapon. The unarmed rarity levels have been adjusted to: below level 10 mundane, level 10-19 common, level 20-39 uncommon, level 40-49 rare and level 50 rare+. Rare+ is between rare and ultra-rare strength.
- Disciple, Monk - Monk and Disciple unarmed damage is no longer the equivalent of a weapon with maxed out damage of the corresponding rarity level. It is now more akin to actual item damage progression.
- Monk - Monk base damage has been slightly increased.

I really, really hope that is not all Sigil has in store for us. We need way more improvement than just increasing our base damage.
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Chunli (RETIRED)
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« Reply #66 on: March 04, 2007, 04:50:08 PM »
Just want to echo my thoughts that have been mainly addressed here already.  I believe one of the core problems with this class is that we have quite a few skills that you just wouldn't use.  My playstyle may be different from others, but I'm almost never going to use a damage skill that doesnt either increase jin or is a finisher.  The endurance costs are to high on these other skills to warrent using them in an efficient long fight.
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Seka_Thunderaxe
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« Reply #67 on: March 05, 2007, 08:51:55 AM »
Also counter attacks are totally useless in groups because if the tank is even average, when would we ever dodge? Also the cost is so high and the timer is so short, the only time you ever have the endurance to perform a counter attack is at the start of the fight.
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Soluss
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« Reply #68 on: March 05, 2007, 09:05:36 AM »
Quote from: Seka_Thunderaxe on March 05, 2007, 08:51:55 AM
Also counter attacks are totally useless in groups because if the tank is even average, when would we ever dodge? Also the cost is so high and the timer is so short, the only time you ever have the endurance to perform a counter attack is at the start of the fight.

Dont forget to mention about the counter attack that it does less damage then a regular ability that costs less end.

What I think that would make counter attacks useful is if they added a debuff effect to a mob... such as a % attack speed slow or something to that effect.  They of course would need to decrease the end cost even still.  Hell i would use a counter attack with a slow attached to it, even if they removed the damage from them.
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Leishiu
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« Reply #69 on: March 05, 2007, 11:25:05 AM »
You'll be pleased then, Steal the Wind (harmonious) series slow the mob 15% and hastes you for 15%. Even lasts a minute, compared to our other debuffs, which have way to weak durations. However, since it's a counterattack, and costs ~25 endurance and haste cap seems to be 25% anyway, it's used once every blue moon - or when noticing a shiny icon when in Crane to strength-debuff while soloing...
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Leishiu ~ Halgar (or sommert)
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« Reply #70 on: March 05, 2007, 11:56:47 AM »
Cool, what level do we get that?
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Leishiu
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« Reply #71 on: March 05, 2007, 02:10:34 PM »
28? 30? Somewhere around there. It looked really awesome until the whole "counterattack" poped up. ;p
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Leishiu ~ Halgar (or sommert)
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« Reply #72 on: March 05, 2007, 03:06:06 PM »
lmao
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