You just dont understand the concept of utility.  You mention a lot of things that you label, but that are traits of a good player, not the class itself.  So you can use FD for a dozen different situations, but as someone said, compare apples to apples.  Go take on an even con 2d.  Solo.  Try it.  Really.  Solo.

Sure this is a group oriented game but you need to pull things down to the basics to see how things are before looking at the bigger picture.  As a player, I strive to do the best I can with what the monk allows me to do.  But when I see boneheads able to do so much more simply because they are a different class...

So, instead of trying to attack actual problems of the class, it's about making it easy mode? Neither of the tricks I mention require a particularly good player, mostly just one sitting at the keyboard and paying attention to what's going on, a good player can probably pull of a greater number of stunts. I've tried soloing, it's not efficent, but most of all, it's not at all fun for me. I can't really stand solo grinding more than 20 minutes unless I just need to grind that last bit to level, regardless if I'm dead effective at it or if I need 5 minutes break between each kill.


Not really true. Certain classes simply performs better in the company of others. I think the rogue is the most stellar example of this. Weak solo, but explodes into power if duo - just like everyone else will improve with a healer companion (or the healer will improve with a DPS companion, pending on how you see it). We'll have our update, but I personally find it more important to actually highlight the lackings of monks rather than "Ranger crit 5x as much as we!!1!1! and have twice the utility!1!!" which really has no bearing, mostly because it's not really true; instead of having fully operational things fixed, and unoperational things remaining the same.
We certainly lack some DPS, perhaps some more utility (such as maintainable group buffs if we would regain Energy - one universable and one for each stance would be neat) and a generally more flexible way to perform in combat. However, we're not broken (or really near), which needs to be pointed out aswell...

i think what Leishiu was saying is that to do a lot of dps, harmonious monk tiger stance is the best way to go... it gives you a huge boost in crit rate up around 50% and much more if you use a bard.  I take it that it's probably less effective when you solo.  But if you are in group your finishers will open up left and right allow you big damage for low endurance.

So basically a harmonious monk is going to way out damage a dragon monk in a group situation, bring more utility with the debuff's they get and have a little better defense stance for pulling.. Oh and they can regen jin out of combat, which usually can help keep up jin surge and some ashen hands.

In other words, switch to harm monk and forget dragon and drunk exist for the time being.  Then you can hang a little better with your peers.

People are voicing their concerns.. that is not whining.

I am happy that you are not struggling with your monk, but please don't be so naive to think that everyone here is over 30, has FD2/nerve strike, is a harm monk with a huge crit rate, plays with a bard and never solo's.  I'm just saying for you in your situation, you are able to deal with our shortcomings better than most, but you are really the minority.

And I wouldn't be sitting all fat and sassy on your crit rate...when you say honestly do you think a 70% evasion wasn't going to be nerfed?.. i say to you honestly do you really think Sigil is going to allow anyone to get up to 80% crit rate? 

At some point, I really believe the are going to make it so no one crits that much buffs or no buffs.  The way to make a monk viable dps is not through 80% crit rates, its by fixing their abilities. They aren't going to make it so harms get nice debuffs, some defense and the best dps.  The concept is dragon monk greater dps than harm but gets no group spells.  It's that simple, so if you are doing ranger dps with your harm monk.. don't rely on for much longer.

Quite honestly? Every patch.
Now that the bard debuff has an exploitable weakness for bards themselves, I figured it would come into the light exactly how overpowering the debuff is; apperently it hasen't.

Any Idea where we are supposed to fall? Is it going to be Rogue, Monk, Ranger then Bard, as it should be; Or will they just bump us a little so we are still far below Rangers? If they bump us equal to Rangers, then will we be getting more utility? By the way thanks for the update.

I love you Quinn..... in a non gay plutonic way...however if I was gay, which I'm not, I would wine and dine you... but I'm not so I wont go there, however I already did so..........ack!  nm you get the picture.

All things being equal Monk should win out. How I was led to understand it is that we do not try to out dps the bard, rather its the other way around that they try to catch up to us.

~QTM