Vanguard Monks - Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

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Vanguard Monks | Monk Discussion | Monk General | Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

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Topic: Monk bugs / issues (No Drama) (Read 22024 times)

Soluss

Sensei

Karma: +45/-59
Posts: 335

Re: Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

« Reply #75 on: March 05, 2007, 07:57:48 AM »

Quote from: Seka_Thunderaxe on March 05, 2007, 07:50:10 AM

Itemization:

In the Celestial Ward line of quests...

After getting 10k faction, you can get the quest "The Reawakening of Vol Tuniel". The Quest rewards are 3 very nice yellow items for the non monks, and then the monk item is green 'Fistbinds of Vol Anari' of which I had better weapons at level 10. This needs to be fixed badly. Why don't monks actually get a useful item on this quest? 10k faction is a ton of work so our reward should be on line with the other rewards for this quest. Here is the exact breakdown of the rewards for this quest.

Ceremonial Dagger of Vol Anari (rare)
Bindable
Dagger and Knife Either Hand
58-71 damage Speed 2.25
(28.44 DPS)
+42 Energy
+12 Intelligence
+4 Vitality
+42 Hit Points
Item Level 35
Class Bard, Druid, Blood Mage, Necromancer, Psionicist, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer

Bow of Vol Anari (Rare)
Soulbound
Short Bow Ranged
93-93 Damage Range 8-25
+1 Ranged Damage
+1 Critical Hit Chance
Item Level 35
Class: Bard, Ranger, Dread Knight, Rogue, Warrior

Shielding Dagger of Vol Anari (Rare)
Soulbound
Parrying Item Secondary Hand
84 Armor Class
15% parrying chance vs level 35
90 hit points
+11 Dexterity
+15 Arcane Absorbtion
Item Level 35
Class: Bard, Ranger, Rogue

Fistbinds of Vol Anari
Soulbound
Handwraps Either Hand
37-40 Damage Speed 2.25
16.89 DPS
+63 Hit Points
+6 Strength
+7 Arcane Absorption
Item Level 35

Does this really seem fair?

I think i seen in the dev tracker that they did indeed fix that and it should be in the next patch


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Hanzou Masamori

Desciple

Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 29

Re: Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

« Reply #76 on: March 05, 2007, 08:12:54 AM »

Combinations are much harder to land with the lowered critical rate that we have from the critical hit/dual wield changes. Since combinations are a large portion of our damage potential I believe Dragon and Drunken (Harmonious style already grants a critical bonus in their offense stance) monks should recieve a 5 percent critical boost on their offense forms to grant them their old chance at chains and finishers. They are offense stances after all.

I also think endurance costs on mastery style specific abilities and some counter attacks is something that has been overlooked with the recent tuning thats been done with melees. Mastery style specific abilities and some counter attacks feel far too costly in endurance currently, I would love to see their costs evaluated.

Originally monks were supposed to be the masters of creating weaknesses that their group members could exploit. I think it wouldnt hurt to apply more weaknesses/weakness exploit tags to more mastery style specific attacks, currently alot of form specific attacks are lacking them. Its not anything major imo, but it would go quite a ways to enhancing a dynamic that the class were originally touted as being the "masters of".


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-Hanzou Masamori

Quinn the Mighty

Monk Lead
Kyoshi
Sensei

Karma: +50/-38
Posts: 443

Re: Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

« Reply #77 on: March 05, 2007, 03:19:19 PM »

Added

Bug: Aum Ti - Many stacking issues. The five percent to parry does not grant the full amount. The twenty percent reduction to endurance costs does not stack with Eternal Crane, putting harmonious monks at a big disadvantage.
Bug: Nerve Strike Currently this ability is broken by Psionicist AoE mez as well as many other minor AoE debuffs. With a 30 second cooldown, these make monks less dependable as a crowd control option in groups. This ability should be broken upon damage, to keep it in line with other classes mezmerize capabilities, or atleast make it less sensitive to certain debuffs.
Bug: Counterattacks doublespam the melee chat box.
Bug: Unable to learn my skills from Aum, i'm around 50 or so tries. (This should be fixed in the next patch) keeping it on the list
Issue: You can't use food and meditate at the same time. A minor issue, but it would be nice if we could meditate and rest up using food at the same time, considering that as a monk you're probably resting after each fight when soloing.
Issue: Originally monks were supposed to be the masters of creating weaknesses that their group members could exploit. I think it wouldnt hurt to apply more weaknesses/weakness exploit tags to more mastery style specific attacks
Issue: Aum Liat - After the horse movement buff speed changes, monks should be granted a Five percent increase to mounted speed while chanting to keep in line with other classes movement buffs.
Issue: Jin Surge should not count for auto attacks, because it's very easy to have it "wasted" if you don't time it right - And you can't expect your teammates to time their attacks for it either.
Issue: Vulnerabilities need better descriptions / tutorial
Dragon Concern: Dragon Stance - Provides health regen out of combat. This stance provides no benefit during combat and the amount of regen isn't comparable to that gained by food. It's greatest appeal would be for monks who have Feigned Death, but remain in combat with not much health left, giving them a chance to regain some health and allow them another chance to Feign Death. In combat regen from a fix of this ability may provide an advantage soloing, but I'm sure most monks would just like to see this stance replaced completely.
Dragon Concern: Stone Dragon - Improves the monks armor scaling in level and adding resistances, while reducing attack speed. The armor gained has very little impact on the reduction in damage taken, the penalty for attack speed has little or no affect on the damage output of the monk. This stance doesn't seem to have much impact either way. Possibly reduce a flat percentage of incoming damage, or provide a percentage of resist to stuns, roots, snares and change the penalty to a reduction in run speed or percentage of outbound damage.
Drunken Issue: Drunken Fist Stance - 10% damage increase, while generating 25% more aggro. This stance is clearly for soloing or tanking in groups as you will compete with tanks for aggro if used. Right now this stance collects dust. A possible fix to this stance would be switching the damage modifier with a damage reduction or avoidance modifier, allowing drunken monks to perform the role of off-tank once again.
Drunken Issue: Drunken Master Stance - 10% attack speed increase and 5% dodge increase. This stance provides monks with the least amount of penalty for using the stance, but provides no real benefit other then 5% dodge. A fix for this would be adding a set amount of damage to all abilities rather then haste (or making haste affect monk abilites) and increasing the percentage of avoidance gained.
Drunken Issue: Drunken Sway Stance - 10% to dodge, but 10% less accurate. This stance has seen perhaps the most extreme effect from the evasion changes. Almost everyone can agree that 10% is not worth a 10% reduction to accuracy simply because the two do not scale equally. A mob will gain more benefit from you missing 10% of the time, then you will see from +10% to dodge (once again 10% increase is usually not completely obtained). A possible fix for this stance would be to increase the evasion provided, possibly add a percentage boost to all damage dealt while in this stance, and significantly reduce the accuracy penalty as well as scaling it down as the monk levels.
Harmonious Bug: Crane Stance: mouse over description says it adds +20% to parry, but the buff tool tip says 8%, i'm inclined to believe the buff tool tip.
Harmonious Concern: Tiger Stance the end cost penalty for this stance may be too harsh
Harmonious Issue: Eternal Crane end reduction components are not stacking with Aum Ti's end reduction components
Harmonious Issue: There is a problem with the crit bonus stacking with buffs, gear, and weapon types. It appears to have the 25% added before other crit rating modifiers are factored in. With heavy +% crit and dex gear, along with buffs almost no benefit is noticable from switching to this stance. A suggestion for this stance would be fix the stacking issues, remove or reduce the cooldown on stance stepping, and scale the endurance cost penalty down minorly as the monk levels.

Removed

Aum Ti not working as intended (Although there are stacking issues...... that I have covered previously)

~QTM


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Leishiu

Sensei

Karma: +7/-6
Posts: 318

Re: Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

« Reply #78 on: March 05, 2007, 03:57:07 PM »

Quote

Issue: Aum Liat - After the horse movement buff speed changes, monks should be granted a Five percent increase to mounted speed while chanting to keep in line with other classes movement buffs.

Aum Liat counts as a horse, ie if you get a buff with +10% mounted speed, you'll reach 160% with it (I've seen up to 210% without bard adding in and 35-40 buffs - was with the vampiric curse though) but it's not a speed-buff per se.


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Leishiu ~ Halgar (or sommert)

Jaxinor

Master

Karma: +2/-2
Posts: 59

Re: Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

« Reply #79 on: March 05, 2007, 04:28:43 PM »

Pretty positive Aum Ti Endurance reduction affect not working at all. I'll go test it again right now, but I tested it when I got it and there was defenitely no endurance reduction.

EDIT: Ok, the reduction does work. Although, it seems that the tooltip doesn't display the endurace costs correctly at times, it may have been a stackign issue with turgins vigor (10 end regen, -10% end cost). But watching my endurance meter, flying kick was only using 7 endurance, which is exactly what it should be. Sorry for any confusion.


« Last Edit: March 06, 2007, 09:19:36 AM by Jaxinor »	Logged

*Jaxinor thinks your kung fu is weak*

Quinn the Mighty

Monk Lead
Kyoshi
Sensei

Karma: +50/-38
Posts: 443

Re: Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

« Reply #80 on: March 05, 2007, 04:50:27 PM »

Quote from: Laneus on March 01, 2007, 06:41:38 PM

ok, my bad, Aum Ti works fine, just doesn't show in tooltip. But it does affect the cost of your abilities (it just actually changes the cost in the ability description instead of being applied aftewards.

Is the above not true?

~QTM


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Leishiu

Sensei

Karma: +7/-6
Posts: 318

Re: Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

« Reply #81 on: March 05, 2007, 06:09:00 PM »

Aum Ti breakdown:

Taking cresent kick (or Eagle Claw) which I rather vigiliantly use (base / with Aum):
Harmonious (no mod): 15 / 12
Crane (25% base - dosen't affect like mentioned before): 11 / 11
Tiger: 22 / 20

Tiger stacking is like this:
True: Add percents together first (ie 50%-20% = 30%), then do calculation.15 + 30% (4.5) = 19.5 (see note on rounding)
False: Aum Ti first, then Tiger stance: 15-20% (3) = 12. 12 + 50% (6) = 18.
False: Tiger first, then Aum Ti: 15+50% (7.5) = 22.5 (tiger cost). 22.5 - 20% (4.5) = 18

From this, you could deduct (while only a developer could answer to it really) that you only get to benefit from the largest reduction.
Having had the opportunity to recently test out the Aum Ti along with the bear shaman -10% endurance cost, the cost remains the same.
Rounding also appears to have some issues, which might make this thesis incorrect. Cresent Kick is 15. 50% extra should be 7.5, which ends up at 22.5 - yet the ability is rounded to 22. Which makes it even wierder when you add a 20% reduction and the cost gets to 20 (19.5 according to my calculations).

If this is true, I suppose it's balance issues, I still think it's a bit wierd we're non-stacking with our own (core) abilites though.
I will double check these numbers tomorrow, but they should be correct. ;)


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Leishiu ~ Halgar (or sommert)

Lomash

Master

Karma: +12/-14
Posts: 90

Re: Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

« Reply #82 on: March 06, 2007, 04:54:32 AM »

I was told by a high level dragon monk that the Dragon stance was suppose to be in combat regeneration.

I tested it and couldn't tell whether it had any impact on either incombat regeneration OR out of combat regeneration.

If should effect both to a significant degree. The former will probably never be useful, just like vitality's useless contribution to incombat regeneration. But at least the later could provide fast enough health regen that it reduces monk downtime by a fair amount.

But even that is not quite enough to make this a useful stance. I'd like to see an added 5% run speed and 5% attack speed from this stance. It's not much, but it's a little something to make it less useless.


« Last Edit: March 06, 2007, 04:56:04 AM by Lomash »	Logged

Chunli

Grandmaster

Karma: +12/-4
Posts: 121

Re: Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

« Reply #83 on: March 06, 2007, 08:15:45 AM »

Aum Ti does display the reduced endurance in the tooltip.

Dragon Stance does not add any health regen at all, period.

Sometimes both the finisher and advanced finisher will be displayed on the reactions hotbar. This needs to be addressed, with the addition of making it so you can hotkey each slot on the reaction bar. Right now just using the chain hotkey (or whichever one you hit) does not always choose the skill you want to use.


« Last Edit: March 06, 2007, 10:07:43 AM by Chunli »	Logged

Chunli (RETIRED)
50 Kojani Dragon Monk
Tharridon server

Quote

And Monks are BAD A$$
__________________
Darrin Mcpherson
Senior Game Designer
Sigil Online Games
-------------------------

Dragon Monk Bugs

Meiyen

Desciple

Karma: +3/-3
Posts: 48

Lao'Jin Knight, Juritor of Silk Wisdom

Re: Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

« Reply #84 on: March 06, 2007, 03:54:29 PM »

Quote from: Chunli on March 06, 2007, 08:15:45 AM

Sometimes both the finisher and advanced finisher will be displayed on the reactions hotbar. This needs to be addressed, with the addition of making it so you can hotkey each slot on the reaction bar. Right now just using the chain hotkey (or whichever one you hit) does not always choose the skill you want to use.

You can get around that.

Create a macro that does /cast "ability name" for each ability in the order you want them to attempt to be used. For instance, at level 15 I have mine set to

/cast "Thousand Fists I"
/cast "Flying Kick I"

Then I put that macro on a hotkey bar I have hidden, and pointed a keyboard key (the one that used to be my reaction ability key) to that macro. All fixed. If I have the endurance available for Thousand Fists, it goes off. If I don't have the endurance for that, but have enough for Flying Kick, that goes off. If I don't have enough for either, then the reaction buttons are both grey'ed out, and I know I need to wait.


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Meiyen, Kojani Dragon Monk, Lao'Jin Knight, Juritor of Silk Wisdom
Journal

Chunli

Grandmaster

Karma: +12/-4
Posts: 121

Re: Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

« Reply #85 on: March 06, 2007, 04:30:46 PM »

Yeah I know about the macros, but it would be a lot more convenient of each slot on the reaction bar would keep the same skill chain in the same slot, and allowed you to hotkey that slot. That way when the advanced finisher opened up for that slot you could just hit the hotkey again. But that is not feasable right now because sometimes you get both Flying Kick and Kick of the Heavens on the hotbar at the same time.


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Chunli (RETIRED)
50 Kojani Dragon Monk
Tharridon server

Quote

And Monks are BAD A$$
__________________
Darrin Mcpherson
Senior Game Designer
Sigil Online Games
-------------------------

Dragon Monk Bugs

Daniel

Recruit

Karma: +3/-0
Posts: 18

Re: Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

« Reply #86 on: March 08, 2007, 01:32:35 AM »

Three Finger Strike, Hammer Fist - hits for about 40 dmg. It's actually been like this before the patches of March 7th. Palm Explodes the Heart actually does some dmg though.

Aum Kor doesn't work or do anything at all.


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Lomash

Master

Karma: +12/-14
Posts: 90

Re: Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

« Reply #87 on: March 10, 2007, 12:47:08 AM »

I think the nature of monk AoE's should be looked at.
They just aren't efficient. They cost too much endurance, don't do much damage, they often put you in mortal danger when teaming, and only build one jin.
The only exception being the AoE finisher which was reduced to a cost of 10 endurance.

Trying to utilize a strategy of AoEing will lead to jin starvation, because you're not getting much jin for the endurance you're expending, and on that basis alone you should stay away from them.

When soloing it's more efficient to take down on target fast to reduce your damage intake, instead of slowly killing both of your targets.

When teaming they just don't do enough endurance, and end up starving you of endurance and jin.

Potential solutions:
1. Reduce the endurance cost a bit.
2. Up the damage a bit.
3. Give one jin for each target hit.
The goal is to make AOEs something favorable to use when facing more than one target, as opposed to being an inefficient drain on your combat resources.


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Vazerai Mordorus

Master

Karma: +3/-19
Posts: 69

Re: Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

« Reply #88 on: March 10, 2007, 03:26:06 AM »

Not sure if this is intended, but Jin surge for me is being used up even if I miss. Pre patch it was only used when you actually landed a hit. I know about it going off with white damage, and know for sure it wasnt white damage, as I was whiffing plently since I was raising up one of my low end melee skills.


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Lomash

Master

Karma: +12/-14
Posts: 90

Re: Monk bugs / issues (No Drama)

« Reply #89 on: March 10, 2007, 03:31:10 AM »

Reportedly using a special ability resets your endurance regeneration, so the only way to efficiently go about combat is to use an ability, wait for the endurance to tick, use another, and repeat.
If you're firing off abilities in succession your endurance regen is repeatedly interrupted.

Not sure if it's true, but it reportedly affects every class and would be worth looking into.


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