No, I have no issues being outdamaged by a cleric.  Because I don't feel the need to compete with other people and measure my epeen in such methods.  I'm happy to play a monk because I like how a monk plays and I like what a monk can do.  If you don't and you're simply looking for sheer big numbers, go play a ranger.

Yeah i liked how my monk played and what a harm monk could do.

Not anymore though.  If I cannot excel at something I'm supposed to be good at (I dont call 13% more evade at cost of 20%dps "excel"), u bet i'm going to have a problem with someone that outdamages me, wears heavy plate, AND heals.  On the other hand, i dont really think a cleric can outdamage a monk ... unless the cleric got an uber legendary weapon and the monk is using just his fists (or a stupid windblade! No point in using it now!.

Just to take what Vaz says a step further:

Being balanced and having value is important to a lot of people and that has nothing to do with having an e-peen.

It has everything to do with being able to contribute to a group or raid.  Especially a raid where there is a 24 man limit.  To beat challenging mobs, you need the best players, playing well as a team and contributing highly.  If the guild needs dps and I'm getting outdps'd by the healer.. i will be replaced by a ranger. it's that simple.

I'm not even a hardcore raider, just someone that enjoys raiding and likes to raid 2 or 3 times a week.  In a hardcore 6 nights a week mandatory attendance guild.. they would purty much make you change class. I've seen rangers in EQ go through that gimp stage and seen guilds actually ask rangers to re-roll to rogues because they were more valuable.

What happens if I get a job at night and now have to find a late night guild... it will stink when you go to their app forum and see, recruiting open only for healers, tanks and rangers..  Sorry we are not accepting monks at this time.

My point is that it's really not about trying to impress anyone.  We aren't really competing with anyone, we are teaming with people.. to achieve a goal.   Some people might think we are taking it too seriously, but this a game like anything else and people like me take it somewhat serious... the same way I play baseball, to win.. if that means bunting for the team I do that.  All i want to do is get up to plate and have my shot to help the team.. right now I can do that but I feel like I'm bringing a broken wooden bat while everyone else is using an aluminum bat.

Here's something I want to show you.. it's called the gimpiness of rangers. 

For those that never played EQ.. the Ranger was a crazy class.  It was insanely overpowered at release.. everyone played a ranger.  They could almost tank as well as warriors, had great damage and even the light heals.  They finally had to do something and totally took away their defense.  After that rangers had no agro wipe, so it was common for rangers to get agro and just die right there where rogues could evade and monks could FD to loose agro.  A lot of rangers couldn't adapt and for a long time it was extremely common to see the world of EQ covered with ranger corpses.. even long after this rangers didn't do the dps of rogues and monks and had no real utility.. they were not a wanted class...

This was from EQ, originally happening over 5 years ago... yet their gimpedness is so legendary it still lives today.

http://forums.vanguardsoh.com/showthread.php?threadid=28043

Do you want to be the vanguard version of the ranger?

Sorry Soluss, I wasn't replying directly to you at all... it was just a reply in general to those that keep claiming that there is nothing wrong with monks and claiming that we shouldn't care how we compare to other classes. 

They say we are just whining and it doesn't matter what other classes do.
They make it sound like we are somehow just wanting to get the dev's to beef us up so we can swing our e-peen.
They are making it like we are complaining only because other classes can solo better than us... then telling us to re-roll to another class that solo's well.

My contention is that it does matter how we perform compared to other classes and its an important part of a complex game for those players that intend on taking part of the challenges of difficult dungeons and raid encounters. 

When anyone brings up soloing, we are not saying that we don't solo well because of how the monk is structured. .we don't solo well because we have no defensive skills and marginal dps..which is the same thing that causes us to be poor in groups or raids.   

A few people here have offended my integrity with their overused cliche's like "go find another class"  and they try to paint a picture that I am some uniformed punk that watches kung fu movies and just wants to pwn in VG and complain that I'm not uber enough. 

That is not the case at all.  I enjoy playing MMO's.. I use to be a hardcore raider in EQ, but  not these days... I do hope to raid 2 or 3 nights a week in the future.  I started this game with a guild, with grouping and raiding in mind. 

I was in beta for several months... I played a lot of classes to the 20's:  DK, warrior, blood mage, rogue, monk, necro.. I knew exactly what a monk could do at release and I thought I knew for the most part what direction they were taking them.  I started an orc monk first day of pre-release knowing it wasn't the best solo class.. at the time knowing that the martok monk style quest was bugged, knowing dragon stance was still bugged and knowing my orc would need a ton of faction work...

Basically.. I didn't start this class looking for the easy road or thinking I had some kind overpowered solo machine.  Monks were never overpowered, that is why they are very unpopular class compared to say the ranger. 

I started this class to be valuable high dps offensive fighter that would be a benefit any group.  That's all I ask for.  And right now that is not the case.  I don't want to re-roll.. I love the concept of the class and I was even OK with it at launch when we were a little underpowered... unfortunately for some reason they hit us hard and it makes no sense when you look at what they are doing with other classes. 

Yeah maybe I am ranting and complaining.. I'm just totally disappointed and I really dont' want to re-roll because this class has so much potential to be exactly what I am looking for.

Pre patch, monk was fine with me, i had my 50% evasion, and my skills to control hate. For example i was a good group utility because i could take a good amount of damage, and use a skill to pull mobs off of people. A mob might run to a caster because they are nuking, i could pull it off em, and take some hits. Now after the patch, monk is well, terrible. Not only do i have SNARF for defense, but they nerfed my weapons which means i have SNARF for crits. I might crit maybe twice a fight now, as opposed to every other hit.

Im going to stick with the class, because its fun to play, but i thank god im in a guild that i have been with for the past 5 years, otherwise i would be stuck soloing, and have to rest after every single fight.

I'm pissed about the nerfs and everything, but to be fair, it has nothing to do with Disciples. We are not competing with Disciples in any manner. Their FD has a 1 minute recast and a limited duration.

Well, I have plenty of thoughts on this. If you've played an EQ1 Monk, you must know of the past record of Brad McQuaid and his evil minions. They still have a lot of nerfing to do before the game gets bland enough for his taste. Rumor is that Brad only likes 2 things: bland classes that all feel equally useless and underpowered and live puppy burgers.
Seriously, they are NOT going to have a real look at class balance before months. They are only going to nerf whatever looks overpowered from a distance and leave the players to feel sorry until expansion#4. EQ1 Ranger after release. EQ1 Paladin until Luclin. Oh, and yeah, Alchemy is not broken.

You should literally never be allowed to talk about monks again.

TeH CaLiBiX