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Vanguard Monks  |  Monk Discussion  |  Monk Tactics & Techniques  |  FD Split Pulling « previous next »
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Author Topic: FD Split Pulling  (Read 2748 times)
Soluss
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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2007, 01:09:34 PM »

the FD "in combat on success" bug is a nul issue, there is an easy work around for it involving hiting two keys in rapid succession  Grin

It doesnt always work and while i wouldnt call it an exploit persae that could not pissibly be the intentional way to get it to work... therefore its still a bug and an issue.

Try doing that while at about 20% health with a DOT on you and still being in combat.  Not sure what level you are but higher level mobs can knock that 20% in a jiffy.
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Vaiya
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« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2007, 01:17:27 PM »

hehehe you have a point soluss =D guess im just unusually lucky >.< but dots are the bane of FD's existance.

i mapped "F" as my feign key so its close at hand to WASD, by tapping forward and hitting F really fast it moves and re feigns me,


the issue with FD stems from the way abilities are done for Npc's and PCs, if they trip an abilitie that isnt instant, they try to compleate the cast regardless, keeping them in combat, but they will not re cast while they think they are still in combat with you FD, hitting these keys really fast doesnt generally give the npc a chance to begin the cast again, but you are correct that it does sometimes happen.


~Vaiya
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Leishiu
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« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2007, 06:29:33 PM »

Monks were outperformed by SKs, necromancers for FD pulling - at least in group environements. Bards blew them pretty much out of the water both raid and group. The capital diffrence was that a lot of monks actually had a large understanding for how the agro system worked and were thus simply more capable, it was just something as simple as experience.
As class though, they weren't really superior to pulling in any way; they had one tool compared to double of the necro/sk and pure pantheon of abilites an EQ bard has.
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Leishiu ~ Halgar (or sommert)
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« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2007, 02:09:47 AM »

Monks are able to solo pull.  Confirmed in Rahz Inkur.  FD nerve strike works but just takes a while to split a 3 pull.
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Xeliso
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« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2007, 07:33:16 AM »

Monks are able to solo pull.  Confirmed in Rahz Inkur.  FD nerve strike works but just takes a while to split a 3 pull.

I'm pretty sure all of the mobs inside Rahz Inkur are immune to CC. It might work on some of the mobs outside, but not inside. You can remove 1 mob at a time by using the bug with FD, but Nerve Strike gives you the message "xx mob is immune to the stun portion of Nerve Strike" (maybe not verbatim, but close enough)
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Chunli (RETIRED)
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Zaklaan
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« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2007, 07:52:31 AM »

Just wonder if it is normal to be in aggro with mobs, when FD worked. See the screenshot below. 10 casters camping my character, when someone rope me they follow. So only way is to stand up and FD asap so some of them lose aggro. And  no way to stun as I am in combat mode. I did it in 4 times, and survived to dot and snares casted on me but it was so closed ! For the pleasure of the eyes :
if you don t see the entire image link is http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/Zaklaan/VG/ScreenShot_00002.jpg
« Last Edit: April 04, 2007, 07:54:35 AM by Zaklaan » Logged
Soluss
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« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2007, 06:36:54 PM »

I havent been active on the boards lately, quite frankly I havent been playing the game too much (more of a home problem then a game problem, but monks/games state does have some to do with it)...anywho I though I would quote a post that I found from Brad about fd pulling and some other things...Going by this post FD pulling IS suppose to work like it did in EQ1.  I know some people have disagreed with that conception but this post will prove it =)

Quote
Some of this will be possible, but it will depend on the encounter.

Take pulling. Some mobs will be linked, and some won't. So pulling is viable in some encounters, but not all.

Take kiting. Some mobs will have varying leash lengths. Some mobs will pursue you more quickly than others. And again, some may be linked. So sometimes kiting will work, and sometimes it will fail.

This is also true for mez, FD/invis/sneak, etc.

We don't want to eradiate these strategies, some of which we indeed didn't plan for in EQ 1 and were emergent (kiting, FD pulling, etc). Looking back it seems dumb, but we simply didn't realize what players would figure out. 25 people working on a game played by half a million and the odds are the half a million will figure out a lot the 25 didn't plan for. In any case, rather than eradicating these tactics (again, as long as they are not abject exploits, like getting a mob stuck or confused), we want them in the game, just not a tactic that is applicable to all or most encounters. Rather, they should work with some encounters, but not others. This offers more variety when exploring a region or doing a dungeon. It also requires knowledge and exploration and some trial and error, adding to the more abstract yet very real skill in MMOGs that is knowledge of your surroundings and how to tactically do an area/region/zone/whatever.

Like in my previous post, this ties into the situational population of the Vanguard world, where sometimes a class, or a weapon, or a set of gear, or certain counter spells or moves, are important or even essential, again depending on the encounter, region, difficulty level of the area, etc.
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Dena
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« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2007, 03:29:37 AM »

Have to disagree with you, Leishu, on monks as pullers in EQ.  Yes in a pinch sk's and bards could pull but when pulling in a raid or  tough group environment bards would have to fade too often SK's still had that wait time for feign, not instant like monks.  Also monk AA's were pretty much geared towards being the puller, faster run speed, mez, ae's not breaking feign as well as boosts to mend.  I played a necro and a monk in a large raid guild that had very good players from each class but it was always the monks that pulled, not the sk's or bards.

Granted in small groups, bards were always overpowered if played by a good player.  EQ did love it's bards. But monks are fairly uber in EQ as well as far as damage, evasion, pulling and their uber mez now. 

I do agree though that most monks had the best idea of how agro worked and had some amazing pulling techniques which was one of the joys of playing a monk.  The system that is in place now in VG is so goofy and stupid, the fact that they still haven't addressed it is asinine.

My 2 cents,

Dena
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Leishiu
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« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2007, 06:12:53 AM »

Have to disagree with you, Leishu, on monks as pullers in EQ.  Yes in a pinch sk's and bards could pull but when pulling in a raid or  tough group environment bards would have to fade too often SK's still had that wait time for feign, not instant like monks.  Also monk AA's were pretty much geared towards being the puller, faster run speed, mez, ae's not breaking feign as well as boosts to mend.  I played a necro and a monk in a large raid guild that had very good players from each class but it was always the monks that pulled, not the sk's or bards.

Over the years, we used monks, bards, shadowknights (they really got to shiny on Rathe) and the occational necro for splits, me (rogue) for most normal pulls. It really boils down to the skill of the player to perform splits - while snare splitting died out due to a vast increasment in immunities - bards were never really prevented by this. We went from Ssra -> Time without ever using a monk as puller; and did most of GoD without one aswell.
The reason EQ monks were popular as pullers were really two-folded: they had a reputation of having the tools for it and since there was always a few paragons of the class people assumed that every monk could pull of what someone who pretty much fully understood the mechanics could.
Once however a guild realises what a semi-competent bard can do without really understanding much of why things work the way they do but simply use all (or even half) of their tools, they won't be hesitating to use bards. ~
But it boils down between guild to guild I suppose, some are more traditional, other prefere individuals skill and yet others prefere the easy way (ie bard). In the end, we used individuals (which coincidently was mostly monks) while the three bleeding edge guilds uses (or used, I dunno atm!) bards more or less exclusively. Go figure.
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Leishiu ~ Halgar (or sommert)
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