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Vanguard Monks  |  Monk Discussion  |  Monk General  |  Pulling – a spate of bugs or working as intended? « previous next »
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Author Topic: Pulling – a spate of bugs or working as intended?  (Read 970 times)
Zatras
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« on: February 06, 2007, 09:22:24 AM »

Playing a Monk currently, I got serious issues with our job in Vanguard. I always played a puller and that’s what I will do in Vanguard as well. Now, I am very much unsure, who is the designated puller in Vanguard.

I levelled my DSC in early beta 2.5 to lvl 35 to check out FD and had to find out that it was not only ineffective in time-consumption, but impossible because everything was linked. Only way was to root/snare one and outrun the rest. Thus Mnk/DSC could not split those days.
When beta 3.0 started, I played a Bard and I loved the class for its versatility. But I also found out, that I made an excellent puller with selos, snare song, lull, mez, charm. On the other hand linkage of groups of mobs was very much reduced, thus FD-splitting became possible. Still, I was very tempted to play a Bard. Especially when Halfling were supposed to get Fading Memories as a racial ability, Haffer Bards would have made the über-puller-combination. And since my Question on the beta-boards regarding, who will have the pulling role, was left unanswered by the Devs.

My guildmates told me, to drop the idea about playing a Bard, they would want me for my pulling skills. It would be a silly question to ask in the first place, since lull, snare, mez and charm can and most likely will all be resisted in end-game, but they can never nerf FD. That did sound very logical to me. Looking at the current game, I can only wonder, if we could have been more off target with any other thought.
Thus, I have to raise that question again: who is going to be the designated puller in Vanguard

Unfortunately, pulling with my Monk is frustrating at best. Let me tell you about my current (online-)life, if I try to.

Range Attack/Aggro Range:
Sorry to say, but the range of our Shurikens (5 to 20m) are a complete joke. What are they good for anyway, if the mobs aggro range is longer than the range of our Shurikens?
I do not mind, that my group is making fun about how long it takes me to run to the mobs. I will simply start running earlier   I do loose a bunch of DPS compared to any bow-class or caster-class (which actually is every other class in VG), but I did not started the Monk for DPS anyway. My problem is, that I simply fail to understand the whole purpose of giving us Shurikens in the first place, when the mobs aggro range is longer (on red/purple con mobs) or nearly as long (on white/yellow con mobs) anyway. Is it just to get a single range-attack of 100 to 150 dmg in before the mob (that’s pulled by the Bard) hits the camp? Great, grats us!

FD-Splitting:
So ok, if I want maxed DPS and fast pulls, I will use every other class than the monk class. They still got FD and will do the more complex ones. Well, yeah, if FD would be a reliable tool. Unfortunately it isn’t. I get a fail message in 8 out of 10 cases. Is it a coding error or bad luck or do I need high wisdom or something?
In many cases, I turn around after the mob aggroed (remember, the mob aggroed on me first, and it’s not me attacking it with a shuriken) and run back with the mob hitting on me already. Thus, I FD. But I get a fail message in 8 out of 10 cases. Thanks to runspeed buff, I can still make it. But what about those minutes I have to wait, that runspeed is back up? Right, I will let the Bard pull, he got selos. Actually, he does not even need selos for it, since he got a bow and a shout.

Bard lull success > FD success
On the same mobs I get a FD fail yesterday in Temple of the Ancients or in CIS, our two Bards were able to get a lull in, in 9 out of 10 cases. If he failed, it did not matter at all, since he can mez or charm. But they do not even have to. They just have to run far enough, while they shout another pair of arrows on one of the mobs. All mobs will finally drop off his aggro list, but the one that is shot with arrows.

Pulling like that does not involve any skill and does not sound like fun, in my book. But at last I could pull when playing a Bard (and would have a lot of fun with all the other tools I get), instead of staying there as a Monk and watch them doing so. Thus, I would like to know: Is this “working as intended”™ or an unfortunate spate of bugs? Do you want Bards to do the puller-job or us Monks? If you do want Bards to do it, fair enough, but please announce it now and I can reroll asap and not once I have hit 50.

Zatrassis, lvl 70 Mnk, EQ1, Sol Ro -> Ayonae Ro -> Antonious Bayle (retired)
Phreekitty, lvl 70 Brd, EQ1, Sol Ro -> Ayonae Ro -> Antonious Bayle (retired)
<Darkwind>
Zatras, lvl 26 Monk, Vanguard, Gelenia (soon to retire?)
Phree, lvl 1 Bard, Vanguard, Gelenia
<Immortality>
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Dojo
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2007, 02:27:24 PM »

What con mobs are you fighting that you are failing 80% of the time?  When I pull in my groups, FD is extremely reliable.  This is only just for mobs up to red cons tho.  Once we get into purple cons, they see through it almost every time.  Perhaps you are just going for mobs out of your skill level, and if that is the case, then yes I would say it is working as intended.
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Dojo Jindo
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Zatras
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2007, 03:30:49 PM »

Yes, we hunt 4-Dot mobs that con red or purple to us. That does not explain why Bards can do the trick easily, tho. Also, I wonder what level raid mobs will be in Vanguard, but I doubt I will fight even con mobs then.
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Mauve
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2007, 04:18:22 PM »

ive seen level 50 raid mobs, just in bizzare locations, and 45
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Goldeneyes
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2007, 04:04:58 PM »

you can pull with Storm Stride, it has an extra 5m.  As long as the mob isnt engaged, then you don't actually warp to it.  Not sure if that's intended though.
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Mauve
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2007, 05:37:43 PM »

Btw Zatras i agree with you, on purples i can understand it failing a lot.
But regular exp groups are gonna be on yellows and even reds very often, and that makes us unable to pull them.

My opinion is that FD success needs to be raised accross the board. Whites and bellow should be about 99 % pass.
Yellows should be about 90% pass, Reds 75% pass, Purples 50% or lower depending on how higher they are

At the moment its something like 80% for yellows if only 1 level higher, anything above that and it drops dramaticly and very quickly. Reds is really so risky its not worth trying to split currently
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Arameth Lysaralyn
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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2007, 11:58:17 PM »

Comming from playing only on other Monk (EQ I) I have seen and only done a few FD pulls previously.  My EQ monk was a solo thing while I waited for my guild to log in.  I do remember when hate wasa wiped that they "should" walk back.  a Bugbear camp that has two and three dot reds (critter 17 I'm 14 just got FD) it seemed to be impossible to FD slip and the hate drop seemed to be "a bit off".

I haven't had time yet to try vs. even or 1 level yellow critters yet.  Just give it some time or shelve your monk an dplay another class while waiting for the monk revamps.

I killed off a Rogue to make a monk since they broke alot of the Rogue abilities to sneak and get skills from sneaking.

The Devs seem like they are trying which is more than I can say for the current EQ, EQII.

Arameth
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Akodo
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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2007, 09:43:51 AM »

I do not think that FD is just pass/fail. There are grades of success besides complete success and complete failure. There are main factors. such as level and distance, that influence how good/bad the success/failure is. Overall, me and my group bard both pull, me first, then him. FD, if all goes well, has split somethings. Others, despite many attempts could not be split. Some pulls are just hard linked together.
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Qonk
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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2007, 11:45:24 AM »

FD works very well on even or lower cons. However, I'm beginning to get frustrated with the failure rate when using against mobs +1 and +2 levels above me. They definantly need to improve FD for yellow and red cons. The sooner the better.
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Bonz
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2007, 10:37:15 PM »

I haven't' done a lot of pulling yet, but even pulling the yellow or white cons, it's not a fast event to get them to split.  In EQ, usually one would stick around and the other would wander off.  Now, the pathing of the mobs is totally different.. they don't seem to want to cooperate near as well.

Maybe its me or just the area, but is anyone having problems even getting 2 mobs to spit... or at least have the feeling that its taking all night to make a solo pull?


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