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December 01, 2008, 02:10:14 PM

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Vanguard Monks  |  Monk Discussion  |  Monk Tactics & Techniques  |  Stripping Agro - FD or no? « previous next »
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Author Topic: Stripping Agro - FD or no?  (Read 637 times)
Chop Suey
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« on: September 24, 2008, 10:09:04 AM »

Hello, this is my first post on VGMonks, although I've been a "troll" at work for a long time now.

I had a discussion the other day with a friend on what to do if you strip agro off your tank in a group or raid.

Basically, its a conflict of interest between FD or not. Being a Qalian drunken, if I happen to pull agro off of a tank, I have no problem staying alive, and what I will normally do is either invul or use a few of the dodge abilities to give the tank some time to take the agro back and once they do I will immediately FD to clear the agro. The reason I do this normally is as most know alot of times if you strip agro and then FD immediately the mob won't always go back to the tank, instead it will start bouncing around smashing all the squishies. Also just fyi I don't pull agro all the time ;p very rare after GU6 with a lucky burst.

I still hear it every now and then if I strip agro, people (other classes) telling me to FD (or I will die, lol). Wondering what other monks think on this subject.



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Ronmaru
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« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2008, 06:14:23 AM »

Hello, this is my first post on VGMonks, although I've been a "troll" at work for a long time now.

I had a discussion the other day with a friend on what to do if you strip agro off your tank in a group or raid.

Basically, its a conflict of interest between FD or not. Being a Qalian drunken, if I happen to pull agro off of a tank, I have no problem staying alive, and what I will normally do is either invul or use a few of the dodge abilities to give the tank some time to take the agro back and once they do I will immediately FD to clear the agro. The reason I do this normally is as most know alot of times if you strip agro and then FD immediately the mob won't always go back to the tank, instead it will start bouncing around smashing all the squishies. Also just fyi I don't pull agro all the time ;p very rare after GU6 with a lucky burst.

I still hear it every now and then if I strip agro, people (other classes) telling me to FD (or I will die, lol). Wondering what other monks think on this subject.





Ultimately its a matter of conmmunicating with your tank.  If they tank expects you to FD (which most will) they will not intend to target you and use rescues or defensive target aggro boosting manuvers.  If on the other hand you tell them that you will go invuln and then evasive, they will know what to expect and everyone will likely be cool with things.

That said, arguably you shouldn't be pulling aggro in the first place unless you are intentionally allowing yourself to do so.  You are the one dps class that almost never has an excuse.  If you do a major crit you can always FD immediately afterwards and not pull aggro etc.

If the mob tends to ping pong after you FD it usually implies that multiple party members need to do a better job of controlling their aggro.  A good solution is to let them die repeatedly.  Wink  That said if you can consistantly stay ahead of the other DPS's aggro and help moderate the ping pong and the net result is that your group safely and effectively mows through things faster.../shrug who can really complain so long as you use your aggro planting ability to help the tank secure things when he/she looses it.


PS a troll at this point is a term usually used for people that make posts in a forum designed purely to piss off and annoy others and generate dramatic flaming responces.  AKA you are baiting and fishing for responces "trolling".  You are not a rather a lurker.  Wink
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Fujitsu
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« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2008, 12:53:03 PM »

Actually you are 100% right if you FD (or a mob agro clears), it wont go right back to the tank.  It begins by proximity agroing the nearest person attacking.  Its almost like the whole hate list is erased because for a split second you see the --- on the targerts agro, as if it wasn't agro.


Typically if i peel (still happens quite often because of the way burst agro works) I will move the mob next to the tank and immediately FD so it will proximity agro the tank.  I can fd 10+ times in a fight and still agro at 5% if I get a big enough set of crits.  (apparently agro diminishes over time, or so the tanks tell me)
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Chop Suey
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« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2008, 01:59:16 PM »

Actually you are 100% right if you FD (or a mob agro clears), it wont go right back to the tank.  It begins by proximity agroing the nearest person attacking.  Its almost like the whole hate list is erased because for a split second you see the --- on the targerts agro, as if it wasn't agro.


Typically if i peel (still happens quite often because of the way burst agro works) I will move the mob next to the tank and immediately FD so it will proximity agro the tank.  I can fd 10+ times in a fight and still agro at 5% if I get a big enough set of crits.  (apparently agro diminishes over time, or so the tanks tell me)

Thats good stuff there Fuji. I wasn't aware that it was a proximity thing. Should have no more issues with ping ponging mobs now that I know this. Thanks.
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Ronmaru
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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2008, 06:51:03 AM »

Actually you are 100% right if you FD (or a mob agro clears), it wont go right back to the tank.  It begins by proximity agroing the nearest person attacking. 

Right...which means it should only retarget someone in melee range, which means it won't ping pong unless the ranged dps members or ranged healers are going ballistic...which they usually do.  Tempering themselves to say "oh...it switched targets...I should back off a second" goes a looooong long way to helping.  So long as it is targeting someone that already was in melee range its usually pretty easy for a tank to get things back under control if you get up and push aggro after FDing.

Its almost like the whole hate list is erased because for a split second you see the --- on the targerts agro, as if it wasn't agro.

Likewise if you land a large crit there is a delay before the aggro seems to register and the mob peals.  Thus my statement that you can always FD immediately after a large crit and it prevents the huge chunk of aggro from getting a chance to register and peel from the tank.  At least its always worked that way for me.  Wink

Typically if i peel (still happens quite often because of the way burst agro works) I will move the mob next to the tank and immediately FD so it will proximity agro the tank.  I can fd 10+ times in a fight and still agro at 5% if I get a big enough set of crits.  (apparently agro diminishes over time, or so the tanks tell me)

The tanks are correct ime.  It seems to have some kind of exponential decay factor so that it becomes hard to sustain beyond a certain level but it also never really drops to zero (ignoring FD and mem wipes etc.).  That means sudden bursts of aggro can allow someone to go past the steady maintained level your tank is holding.  But like I said there seems to be a delay before it registers with the mob, in that time you can almost always FD before it actually peels.  Seems to work that way on my monk and disc.  If I FD immediately after landing  large crit, or immediately after critting on the concordant chain on a disc I will never actually peel aggro.  If I stay up the aggro seems to "finish registering" with the mob and i peel it.

On the flip side I could be completely misreading things?  /shrug
Wouldn't be the first time.  Wink
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Fujitsu
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2008, 02:19:34 PM »

There definitely is a delay and you can see it too ;-p

When i land a big crit on any mob, occasionally my screen locks up for 1 second later, then  when it unlocks im dead.   Its cute on vent when you hear "my screen locked up, i think i peeled and died"


It is proximity for the reagro....but if a dot tics, or any attack lands on the mob it will put that person at the top of agro.  AKA rogue 03 standing next to you hits eviscerate the second you FD... Chances are he will agro first.   Telling everyone but tanks to turn attack off during a peel helps as well.
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