Navigation:
Home
Forum
Monk Discussion
Monk General
Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
User Menu
Welcome Guest.
Username:
Password:
Remember me
Lost Password?
No account yet?
Register
Main Menu
Home
News
Forum
Search
Class Info
FAQ
Abilities
Quests
Guides
Off-Site Links
Vanguard Official Site
Vanguard Forums
Vanguard Bards
Vanguard Bloodmages
Vanguard Shaman
Vanguard Radio
Vanguard Servers
Polls
What race will you be?
Kojani Human
Half Elf
Orc
Goblin
Raki
Qaliathari Human
Dark Elf
Mordebi
What's your favorite martial style?
Dragon Style
Harmonious Body Style
Drunken Style
Spotlight
Latest News
Our Sponsors
Popular Articles
Monk Abilities
Monk Class FAQ
Under Construction
Vanguard Monks DPS Parser
Sony Online Entertainment Acquires Sigil Games Online
Recent Forum Posts
Drunken Monks Role
(10) by
Meiyo
Monk Changes
(4) by
Draxs
Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
(51) by
Gang
Griffon Quest
(41) by
Draxs
Some things i feel need to be addressed befor...
(7) by
Hag
VanguardMonks News
Sony Online Entertainment Acquires Sigil Games Online
New Mounts Available Today
INC Monk Love!
Vanguard Monks DPS Parser
Double XP Weekend - March 10th-12th
Official Vanguard News
An error occured!
Error Message: MagpieRSS: Failed to parse RSS file. (mismatched tag at line 22, column 2)
User Info
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
May 16, 2008, 04:34:16 AM
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Search:
Advanced search
News Box
Welcome to Vanguard Monks!
Key Stats
8954
Posts in
959
Topics by
1995
Members
Latest Member:
Elittalty
Vanguard Monks
|
Monk Discussion
|
Monk General
|
Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
« previous
next »
Pages:
1
[
2
]
3
4
Author
Topic: Im sorry I need proof Fusoya (Read 906 times)
Gang
Recruit
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 11
Re: Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
«
Reply #15 on:
May 11, 2008, 11:24:43 AM »
I too was a Monk in EQ. The nerf decimated the monk class.Ellan was correct in that the top 1% monks they were trying to "fix" werent affected at all. The rank and file monk felt it greatly. This is why Im calling for open analysis of this issue. Its in our best interest that everyone in the community has the numbers/ tactics and information to do extensive testing. If we just jump to a conclusion that on the surface may be the culprit we may end up paying for it in the long run.
Logged
Thorius
Recruit
Karma: +0/-2
Posts: 12
Re: Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
«
Reply #16 on:
May 11, 2008, 11:41:22 AM »
I to believe its something to do with stacking buffs. There is many bugs in the game due to buff stacking. I know buffs staced a certain way and your endurance bar doesnt drop. Tanks get more hps with buffs done in a certain order. These are bugs from buff stacking and i think that the dps prob could be the same thing. I consider myself doing pretty decent dps but i cant do over 200k in a shot. I can do 200k with the multiple attacks added up but not a single shot
Logged
Draxs
Grandmaster
Karma: +9/-3
Posts: 123
Re: Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
«
Reply #17 on:
May 11, 2008, 01:22:42 PM »
Quote from: Gang on May 11, 2008, 10:57:36 AM
Thats why Im asking for in depth information. If I can duplicate the sequence of abilites and not get the same results then it has to be something else. I think Fujitsu brought up (when this first came out) that it might be an issue of buff stacking but that was quickly quashed.
So those of you getting 200k crits and soloing APW mobs in 5 or 6 hits please tell us the abilities you use and in what order. I will go to APW soon as you do it and test it.
If I and other monks cant duplicate it then we can look at gear and buffs and see how they come into play.
Just assuming its +flat damage being the culprit is a bit premature.
We need to break this all down. Heck go into APW naked wearing just a weapon and no buffs and see what kinda crits you pull off and what yer DPS is. Then add yer gear and repeat. Then remove the gear and get raid buffed and repeat. Then wear yer gear and get buffed and repeat.
This could be done in a couple of hours and actually give us real data to work with.
I really dont want to be adjusted in GU6 only to find out that it was buff stacking and not +flat damage. At the rate they fix stuff itd be GU9 before they could refix us.
I have actually stated a few times how it is reproduced.
Errant Fists+Fists of Celerity+Quickening jolt+ the Thousand Fists lines.
If you have read and understand Talisker's (or was it Tiraslee's) post about it on the main formus then it should make sense to you how it is achieved.
Logged
Draxs
50 Dragon Monk
Brotherhood of the Spider
Xeth
gang
Recruit
Karma: +1/-1
Posts: 12
Re: Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
«
Reply #18 on:
May 11, 2008, 02:59:23 PM »
Why be cryptic about it Draxs...i said ive used that very combo and not achieved 200k hits. So lay it out there and let us know...Plus i wanna know how you solo APW mobs in 5-6 hits? Ive read that post by the Dev and I dont understand how you can make 200k hits. So spell it out im a dope
Logged
Xenophon
Desciple
Karma: +1/-0
Posts: 39
Re: Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
«
Reply #19 on:
May 11, 2008, 03:39:57 PM »
I'm curious, do you guys consider the hits that show up in the log as "you quickly strike X, dealing Y damage" and "An errant strike hits X, dealing Y damage" to be separate hits? Because those aren't actually separate, individual hits; they're results of the fists of celerity and errant strikes buffs. They may show up as separate hits in the log but they are all part of the same, single hit.
I've been reading your posts and I can appreciate your wanting proof, but be sure that you aren't assuming that Fusoya and Talisker are fabricating things either. Fusoya already posted screen shots for you that showed a 200k hit resulting from one attack and Talisker also posted information about what's happening in the code that they have seen. Unfortunately, I don't think that you're going to get a look at the actual game code unless you get hired by the vanguard dev team, though, so we're going to have to take their word at some point.
Moral of the story is: asking questions and wanting proof is fine, more power to ya, but if you automatically assume that the answers were made up, what's the point? 200k+ hits are happening, if you can't reproduce them then don't worry, the update won't significantly effect you. (btw, I'm a harmonious monk and the highest hit i've ever done is around 50k I think)
Logged
Xenophon
Venerable Warriors
gang
Recruit
Karma: +1/-1
Posts: 12
Re: Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
«
Reply #20 on:
May 11, 2008, 04:26:40 PM »
Everytime I ask they say errant fists fist of celerity and jolt...then they allude to some technique or buffs or what have you that allows them to pull this off. Im not assuming they are fabricating anything. Im just saying better monks than I are incapable of duplicating what they are saying. So that leads me to believe there is something other than abilities, gear or buffs coming into play here. If its a superior way to play my class Id sure like to learn it. Thats all Im saying.
Obviously they say they are doing 200k hits every 2 mins or less....plus they say they can solo APW mobs in 5-6 hits please explain so i can learn how to do this too. Would help on raids greatly.
Yet everytime they post there are no specifics.
Logged
Xenophon
Desciple
Karma: +1/-0
Posts: 39
Re: Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
«
Reply #21 on:
May 11, 2008, 04:49:58 PM »
Your reply sparked a thought for me:
I wonder if the reason they are not revealing details on how to produce the 200k hits is because it falls under the category of exploit/bug. I'm just speculating, of course, I don't know what's really going on, but it seems reasonable to me that now that they have identified this bug, they wouldn't want to disseminate it further to those who aren't already exploiting it.
The reason your post sparked this thought is that if you're fishing for a guide on how to hit for over 200k so that you can use it to further your raid's goals, that would remove a significant portion of the challenge of the content for your raid. In any case, it's not something that your raid should be reliant on to succeed as it will be removed from the game as soon as the devs work out all the bugs.
Logged
Xenophon
Venerable Warriors
Draxs
Grandmaster
Karma: +9/-3
Posts: 123
Re: Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
«
Reply #22 on:
May 11, 2008, 05:36:48 PM »
Quote from: Xenophon on May 11, 2008, 04:49:58 PM
Your reply sparked a thought for me:
I wonder if the reason they are not revealing details on how to produce the 200k hits is because it falls under the category of exploit/bug. I'm just speculating, of course, I don't know what's really going on, but it seems reasonable to me that now that they have identified this bug, they wouldn't want to disseminate it further to those who aren't already exploiting it.
The reason your post sparked this thought is that if you're fishing for a guide on how to hit for over 200k so that you can use it to further your raid's goals, that would remove a significant portion of the challenge of the content for your raid. In any case, it's not something that your raid should be reliant on to succeed as it will be removed from the game as soon as the devs work out all the bugs.
That pretty much sums up the lack of very detailed examples. And is why I don't even use Quickening jolt personally.
I'm sorry if it's cryptic but I'm not personally going to post a way to accomplish something that is unintended. I can promise you I have seen the "total" damage from the hits exceed 300k in one ability, not adding up all the lines of text but the actual total which is posted as the last line of text.
Nothing else I can do for you though, just going to have to either believe those of us telling you it exists or not.
Logged
Draxs
50 Dragon Monk
Brotherhood of the Spider
Xeth
Fujitsu
Sensei
Karma: +20/-16
Posts: 781
Re: Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
«
Reply #23 on:
May 11, 2008, 06:50:55 PM »
My best guess is its harmonious monk+bear shaman stacking -15% mitigation (minus 30 total), with max ac debuffs and rogue force crits.
That nets you 8 seconds of a mob with 30% less mit, and garunted crits on thousand fists/thunder fist.
Max + damage % buffs (belt of ages, paladin aura, bard song, cleric buff) AND jolt/errant/quickening.
Cant really test it till we get a harmonious monk and bear shaman, or an active paladin, but its worth a shot. Although to hit a 200k crit, you would have to hit for 133k base damage on thousand fist. Which is still 60k more then i hit for (only need +75% more dmg...)
Logged
Thorius
Recruit
Karma: +0/-2
Posts: 12
Re: Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
«
Reply #24 on:
May 11, 2008, 09:07:38 PM »
Well im about to deploy to iraq for another tour anyway so guess this nerf just helps me break away from the game even easier.
Logged
Ronmaru
Master
Karma: +1/-4
Posts: 87
Re: Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
«
Reply #25 on:
May 11, 2008, 09:17:11 PM »
Last time I checked turgin mitigation reduction attack didn't stack?
Regardless of anything else people are correct who feel that its messed up for one dps class to be twice or moreso powerful than another.
Even non "uber" geared monks and rogues in most cases easily top charts by margins that are unacceptably large not just the top 1%.
That is rediculous and does need to be brought into a reasonable margin...though my fear is like most that it will shatter the classes in any normal non raid environment when the balancing act takes place for GU6.
Gears turn slowly when you are short on resources. I doubt strongly that monks and rogues will feel functional compared to other dps classes in group and solo after GU6. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
Logged
gang
Recruit
Karma: +1/-1
Posts: 12
Re: Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
«
Reply #26 on:
May 12, 2008, 12:07:15 AM »
As stated this will be "fixed" soon. I an tryin to tear apart the mechanics of a raid buffed monk and see whats causing the huge hits. As fujitsu says you still need a base hit of 133k with all the stars aligned to hit like you say you do every 2 mins. So share or dont share. shrug. However the community will have no real way to judge if what you are saying is in fact correct . Or, maybe its something else that someone else might notice that you havent.
Its obviously not an exploit because you admitedly use it . Heck even our class lead says he does it. So that logic kinda falls by the wayside.
Logged
Fusoya
Desciple
Karma: +33/-23
Posts: 33
Re: Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
«
Reply #27 on:
May 12, 2008, 07:15:12 AM »
I was asked to not go into depth of how it is reproduced until the issue has been addressed. I will say there is no big huge secret on how to do it. I've been able to solo certain APW mobs buffed in 4-5 since the 2nd or 3rd month of APW so it's not purely a gear based thing. Although now it can be done self buffed because of my gear. Also we do not reproduce 200k hits every minute or two, those are still a rarity, but the fact is it's possible. Most of my cool downs run around 90-120k depending on the mob.
The +dmg stacking issue is just being altered before class balancing is done, so that developers can more accurately adjust different classes damage without getting funky effects such as well geared / buffed monks hitting for over 5x what they should be. It's simplifying the game mechanics to allow more accurate tuning. Even if the fix reduced all of our damage to 10 hp a swing, it's going to get adjusted to where they want us exactly before it's sent to live servers. The changes will be tested with buffs, without buffs, with no gear, with crafted gear, with group'able gear, with raid gear, with the best gear available. They aren't just saying Monks are overpowered, nerf. They're simplifying game mechanics to allow more predictable results.
Logged
Hakuan
Recruit
Karma: +0/-0
Posts: 16
Re: Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
«
Reply #28 on:
May 12, 2008, 08:21:44 AM »
a few quick questions for fusoya, as taliskers bug expanation is still not making sense. first looking at his "Quickblade example:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We'll use Shank for our example.
Shank - deals % weapon damage plus a small amount of bonus damage.
Quickblade - causes the Rogues attacks to strike twice for a short time.
Our Rogue (lets call him Mardolmer, shall we?) attacks a bad guy with and without Quickblade. For the sake of ease, let's say that Shank's base damage is 900 and that the plus damage portion is 100. He also has 500 worth of flat damage from buffs.
How it is supposed to work w/o quickblade - the damage is 900 (base) + 100 (bonus dmg) + 500 (flat dmg) = 1500dmg.
How the bugged version works w/o quickblade - the damage is 900 + 100 + 1000 (flat dmg being applied 2x) = 2000dmg. Here we don't see a huge difference; we are only getting the flat dmg one additional time.
How it is supposed to work w/ quickblade - 900 + 100 + 900 (quickblade) + 100 (quickblade) + 500 = 2500
How the bugged version works w/ quickblade - 900 + 100 + 900 + 100 + 2000 (flat dmg applied 4x) = 4000. This amount is MUCH more than we expect or desire.
So if you followed me through all that, you see that Flat Damage + an ability with multiple dmg effects is a recipe for crazy dps. Bugged DPS. I used 500 flat dmg in my example. This is a very conservative number compared to what players can get in a raid.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) is the combat bug reproducable using a 2-handed weapon? it appears by taliskers example here that it is applying the weapon dmg bonus to the off-hand weapon as well as the mainhand weapon. has this been tested? with the lack of high end two-handers for monks, and rogues being dual wield exclusive i can see how that could be overlooked.
2) it would seem to me that how it is sposed to work with quickblade would be:
=(900+100+500)+(900+100+500)
since, if you hit the shank button twice you would get:
[button hit 1]
=900+100+500
[button hit 2]
=900+100+500
*NOT* as talisker is suggesting =(900+100+900+100)+500
can you explain why he is going with the later explanation?
3) the posted example on the combat log section is a critical hit (fusoya's combat log hit for 76k using errant + FoC.) is the 200k hit which taliskar keeps referencing a critical? epic? legendary?
4) how is the critical hit equation done? is the flat damage added in before or after the extra multiplier is added?
5) out of curiosity, why is there a 4k hit difference between the errant strike and FoC damage lines in the combat log posted. it seems like that is a significant difference.
any answers would be appreciated.
Logged
Draxs
Grandmaster
Karma: +9/-3
Posts: 123
Re: Im sorry I need proof Fusoya
«
Reply #29 on:
May 12, 2008, 09:18:30 AM »
Quote from: gang on May 12, 2008, 12:07:15 AM
As stated this will be "fixed" soon. I an tryin to tear apart the mechanics of a raid buffed monk and see whats causing the huge hits. As fujitsu says you still need a base hit of 133k with all the stars aligned to hit like you say you do every 2 mins. So share or dont share. shrug. However the community will have no real way to judge if what you are saying is in fact correct . Or, maybe its something else that someone else might notice that you havent.
Its obviously not an exploit because you admitedly use it . Heck even our class lead says he does it. So that logic kinda falls by the wayside.
Just to clarify, I do not use and can't use it. I am a Dragon monk so while I gain some of the benifits I do not have errant fists and I do not use Quickening jolt.
Logged
Draxs
50 Dragon Monk
Brotherhood of the Spider
Xeth
Pages:
1
[
2
]
3
4
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Vanguard Monks
-----------------------------
=> Introductions
=> News
=> Website Q&A
-----------------------------
Monk Discussion
-----------------------------
=> Monk General
=> Monk Tactics & Techniques
=> Monk Gear & Equipment
=> Monk Quests
-----------------------------
Disciple Discussion
-----------------------------
=> Disciple General
=> Disciple Tactics & Techniques
=> Disciple Gear & Equipment
=> Disciple Quests
-----------------------------
General Topics
-----------------------------
=> Vanguard General
=> Vanguard Official Patch Notes
=> Non-Monk Class Discussion
=> Player vs Player
=> Off-Topic