it *should* only effect raiders. however, they are admitidly nerfing to classes to fix a problem created by the high end raid guilds buff stacking.

Re-read Taliskers post carefully. the method of getting 200k hits is in there. build a raid dps group, bard, probably a paladin or warrior (battlecries) and dps. stack up ALL possible +dmg buffs, hit Quickening Jolt, and see the numbers scale up. instead of making the short term flat dmage buffs not stack, which i suspect is the real culprit, they change mechanics, break who knows what and nerf 2 classes.

granted we are being nerfed in the DPS parse so that sorcs stop crying, but thats a different story.

I would say my largest concerns are twofold and in regards to the ultimate rebalancing, not the bug fix.  They are in regards to monk and rogue viability in raids and solo.

Rogues:
After the final rebalancing, no one will bother playing rogues (again) because, on raids,  they will offer equal or less damage than sorcerers, less utility, and have to be in melee range behind the mob making them require more resources to support and keep alive if the mob has AOEs or damage sheilds.  Addititionally rogues already solo OKish at best.  Don't get me wrong, it can be done but if their damage was nerfed significantly (after the final rebalancing)they'd be in a world of hurt once again leading to less people bothering to play them.  In groups having them do damage on par with sorcerers typically won't matter much either way as the utility that either provide isn't usually saught after (not saying it should or shouldn't be but its usually simply not considered by most groups).

Monks:
...once again only the hormonious monk will be "the best choice" on raids, as they will at least have debuffs to give to help justify having to fight from melee range.  Drunken, dragon?  Why use them over a sorcerer?  What is supposed to offset the penalty of having to fight in melee range and sucking down all AOE damage plus damage sheilds?  Why burn up the extra liability that requires more healers if you can use more casters considerably more safely from range?  Pullers?  Maybe but I've seen it done just fine with disc and necro (as it should be, since no one class should be an end all be all at something), dragon and drunken need desirable utility for raids or need dps that exceeds that of a sorcerer if even by a little to justify expending the extra healing resources to have them in a fight.  Solo, harmonious monks start doing OK eventually at mid to higher levels, drunk and dragon are pretty poor at it thrughout.  But like rogues they depend on their high dps to burn down the mob faster than they get killed.  If they are nerfed heavily after the overall final rebalancing their solo preformance will go to downright abysmal.  Groups once again, harmonious?  OK, they have their debuffs.  Drunken?  Sure if the group has no tank and they are built right it will suffice for a lot of content.  Dragon? Why?  Why would you use dragon over any other dps class available?  Don't get me wrong, most groups really don't care about the utility that monks or rogues or sorcers (or rangers for that matter) bring to groups, they are just looking for more dps and anything does the job.  But if you can't justify a tactical advantage that a particular class or class/path combo gives then what is the point of playing them when another one can give a comparative edge in most situations?

Dragon is by far in need of some kind of real utility (I've suggested being able to apply some kind of elemental weakness debuff so a mob takes more damage from fire for example etc.) and since drunken's tank abilities are all but useless on raids they need something to offer as well (perhaps fix and expand their options in terms of aggro manipulation not on par with but like a melee version of psi).  Both monk and rogue will need something in the solo dept if their damage is nerfed.

At the end when this grand final rebalancing is done there had better be good and reasonable answers as to question such as "why use a dragon monk on a raid if another dps class such as a sorcerer is avialable?"  It should be a hard decision with both offering compartive advantages.  If its an easy decision in most cases then things are not "balanced".

Errant strikes, celerity and quickening jolt used in conjunction, iirc

200 x 1.5 = 300   You are misinterpreting your own results more than likely.  % damage is added after all +dmg.  the fact that it's +melee damage really doesn't matter at all, +melee damage is the same as generic +damage except that generic affects spell damage as well.  I've done many many many tests concerning +damage (seeing as how bards biggest role is adding +damage) and I'm quite certain that my math is correct.But in order to ensure that I'm not mistaken, I'll test this on a L50 monk.   You can even see the results of adding specific amounts of +damage without adding any +% damage on a per hand basis here:  http://www.vgbards.com/forums/index.php?topic=2182.0

I don't know Fuj, I have worse gear than you and I hit for more than that.  I rarely hit for less than 50k with stacks on my thousand fist line, and I do not use a staff I use legion's choking grasp main hand with striking wrap off hand.

I am usually in MT group, with this setup:

Monk
Bard
Cleric
Warrior
Paladin
Blood Mage

So I guess I have pally aura where as you do not.  Buff wise I have buffs from

every class as well as:
Tuurgin
Hayattet
Rakkur
Single target damage buff (from disc  +15% I believe)
some cleric short duration buff (forget the name)
Warrior force crit
and a few others I would have to ask about.  I just know we all stack our boosts for max dps. every 5 min (or the reduced time after refresh reductions 2min something)
Mithril Rune of Damage
Mithril Rune of Strength
Belt of the Ages (+10% every 30 sec, low level CIS quest)
Helm of Dominion (use it if I am too late for the later chains from war forced crit, though we usually have two wars in the raid so this rarely happens)

I haven't used jin surge since I lost my dot when I switched to Drunken (5 jin for 364 damage yuck)

We do not have a regular raiding rogue, so I am pretty undisputed at the top of most of our parses (a paladin out dps'd me once, I must have been afk ) and I get buffed accordingly.


Then again I don't get your 6k dps, so maybe I shouldn't stack as much (or maybe I don't know how to parse correctly for true dps numbers, I pull and let tank gain aggro so that kinda hurts my numbers).  I don't get 100k regularly but then again I have no where near yours or Fusoya's gear, I average 40-80k but break 100k often enough, and have come close to 200k on several occasions without an epic and not on Vicus (posted parses on the discussion threads).

I don't know how Fusoya can solo anything in apw, except maintenance sparks/servitors (health pots or what?), but I can single handedly out dps the rest of my raid on adds by myself.

after looking at alot of the parses and notes it seems like SOE just wants to bring down the rogue monk dps and just say we are bugged out. I look for skills to be changed to lower our damage instead of the so called bug fix.

pretty bad when they have to rebalance all mobs hps to reflect the MAJOR nerf to monk/rogue.

part of what makes these types of games fun is the satisfaction of levelling your character and gaining gear and getting more powerful.....

Well you are now taking my lv 50 dps and nerfing it to lv 40ish!

im about 99% sure this is not a bug fix.

We were designed to have strikes with multiple effects so that our buffs would effect each one, just like 1k fists.  3 strikes so that we should have 3x iron fists damage.  Otherwise we would have a strike that deals 300% damage just like how all the other classes are designed.

They say in their post that this is not a nerf... unless you combine skill x plus skill y regularly then yes you are nerfed.  Well as a dragon monk without using fists of celerity, I do on average 3.5k dps which is more than sorc.  So for you to say that sorc will be highest and you are NOT nerfing me unless i use skill x plus skill y i do NOT believe one word you say.

well im starting to doubt ill play after gu5, if theres not something new for raiders to do, i cant handle another 3 months of farming apw.  1-2 new overlands really doesnt cut it when their loot is this bad.

also its probably gonna be another month before gu5 hits live just because they cant figure out this white texture bug on test.  ( i cant even play cause im stuck in new targ, everything is solid white)