Don't want to put you down or anything, but in order to get the Ancient weapons quest you need to max out your Celestial Ward faction. A LOT of grinding. ;P

Orb that summons shurikens: "Ancient Weapons of Leth Verael"

... which reminds me of the shield that can be found in WoW:

Tenacious Defender
"It has the power to move you."

Glad to hear the good 'ol shaman/monk duo is still good. Although I would've gone for harmo monk/tuurgin shammy.

Yeah. I'm more and more convinced that the monk is "finished" so to speak. Our dps is where it's suppposed to be and we're again ment to be fd pullers in raids... That is, when mobs are unpacifiable or unmezzable as those are  the superior methods for pulling. Our utlility will also remain just that, pullers and perhaps wipe-recovery.

I think the problem with clerics having access to high dps skills is that dps are loosing faith. Why play a ranger when you can play a war cleric, levelling one character able to play two roles? And just pop into healing stance for a few and you can cast heals that blows away that of the ranger, then back to war and keep deeling punishment,

The cleric is so good at so many things, something's got to give. You can't be a good dps, top healer and capable tank and expect others to feel satisfied with their class in comparison.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to play a class that can outlast anything solo but can't kill it. I don't wish for cleric dps to be nerfed into oblivion. But they do need to be toned down imho. Or other damage classes toned up.

We're a dps class ofcourse. But we're one class out of 6 (or . What's the difference of the monk compared to the other dps classes?

I don't think there's a fully fleshed out "pros and cons" of playing the monk as it's supposed to be by Sigil. Correct me if I'm wrong Quinn. I thought I'd try and start a creative discussion of the strengths a monk's supposed to have and if we're lucky maybe even come together on one fleshed out concept.

This comes from me taking part of the wish list just a little. A list that has become damn long . But from the wishes there I get the feeling noone's sure what the monk's supposed to be doing. As a dps class goes, we're not the strongest and most can agree we're not supposed to. But if we're not the best at dps there has to be some other perk about playing monk appart from the rpg "feel".

What's your oppinion that the monk should be able to do, besides dps, that other classes can't do as well?

PS: This is the kind of post that usually ends with "discuss"... so...

Discuss

My idea was that of pulling agro back to the tank with Goading Slap, or off the squishy (and therefore back to the tank) with Waning Palm. Redirection of agro.
Avoidance tanking is too risky, I like that I'm able to but I don't really see myself tanking anything.

I think most of us can agree that we should be just below the backstabbing rogue and alongside the ranger in dps. But it would be nice to be able to offer something else besides dps and wipe recovery. If not redirection of agro, then what's our utility? We're certainly not the pullers of choice.

I think they tend to stay only if you FD close to them, but run back if you FD too soon and too far away. Try letting them come so close that they can slap you once.

I think the vision was to make all classes within a group equal at their job. What should make us stand out is flavor and utility. I like Styffler's post.

I've been thinking in the line of Redirection beeing our thing. Goading Slap and Waning Palm is already there, but refresh timers and low numbers has made me amost forget about them. Beef them up!

We would work a bit like the main tank's little helper. Along with FD we bring safety to the group and to the healer particularly.

I switched from Harmo to Dragon to test it out... By comparing our offensive stances I was kinda expecting to do at least equal damage, maybe more but draining my endurance a bit less.

I was very dissapointed. Because I get less crits, I relied more on regular attacks and Boundless fists+6th dragon strike specificaly. And those are very expensive. Are we ok with the costs?

Dragon Stance and Stone Dragon stance are both jokes. The regen from dragon stance is pitiful at best, and the mitigation of the stone dragon even worse. While I could possibly accept that the dragon stance with it's regen is supposed to be a neutral stance with minor bonus, the stone dragon do need a good buff. I didn't feel like a "stone" at all.

Another thing I felt I lost was my dodge counter. I traded "Steal the Wind" which is a decent well balansed counter, for an AoE stun and damage. As you have stated AoE is situational and it really isn't ever used in a group. If this counter was a stun without a damage portion, it would be great to have. As it is... well... I soon forgot about it.

I was in a VT group a couple of days ago. Guess who tanked? The cleric. A war cleric level 32 with a bloodmage level 32 cleric and it became my first trip to the throne room. Rarelly did I take agro and he was never really close to dieing ever.

...is actually quite good.

There are issues, granted. And I can admit that I haven't experience post level 34. But up until now the monk is pretty ok.

I do feel I add a good chunk of dps, can crow control one mob very reliably and has saved many many wipes. Light fighters appears to be more reliant on buffs to enhance their dps than casters, but I'm ok with that. There's usually at least one good buffer in all groups.

For soloing I can do at least equal level 3dots unless I'm really unlucky with crits. If I am I can always fd and start over. If the mobs are tough I pop a secret since my downtime is always enough for me to have Jin and one of them refreshed each fight. Celerity for the really hard fights, Ice for the healers.

My guild and regular group
Warrior (27), DK (27), BM (30), Ranger (32), Rogue (34) and me (34).

A lot of times it's just me, ranger and rogue messing around. Not the best setups, we just kill stuff fast and hope none get banged up. I feel we all add fairly equal to the damage.

For the passed week our tanks has been away and someone needs to tank the mobs. For a while I thought it was me... But in my experience (and our healer agrees) the ranger takes less damage tanking than I do. Eventhough our defence looks the same what with mitigation and evasion and all and he's two levels lower. Been pondering switching from harmo to drunken for these but I'm deciding against it as the drunken monk doesn't seem to mitigate or evade damage any better. If I pull I can keep agro just fine anyways.

In conclusion monks seem a bit weaker than the ranger but stronger than rogue.
Ranger: Appears to mitigate damage better, has ranged attacks, can heal just a little and the desirable Stalker's Grace buff. Equal or slightly better dps (just my "feeling").
Rogue: Needs a group to dps (as he needs to be stealthed and in the rear), sneak only works well on mobs equal or lower level. Equal dps but a bit bursty. Good agro reduction though.

My wish list

• Some means to reduce downtime soloing. Either with health regen when meditating, or lower refresh or even better a jin cost without refresh on Ignore Pain.
• Slightly better tanking mitigation/evasion. Not on par with def fighters but at least with rangers, maybe better.
• Slight damage buff. Not by much but at least a little. (as a sidenote, the rogue needs a big buff)

Tanking sidenot
No, we're not tanks. But I feel the monks should a choice when there's no defensive fighters around.
I have yet to try a martial sword, this might be a good option to nudge my monk in the right direction. But another nice technique seems to be Swaying Step -> Stinging Backfist. It lets me tank at least one mob, dealing damage to hold agro yet not taking any damage. Until endurance run out ofcourse.

Enough of the rant for now, might add something later. This might even turn out to be a blog of sorts 

It's quite likelly vg will continue it's developement as before. But it's also very possible it will change. The famous ex-emloyee interview was very clear about how there was many good ideas in the team that was shot down by those in charge.
Hopefully with a new organisation there will be more room for creative solutions aswell as more coordinated ways to handle bugs and the like. I really hope so.

Hi.

I've been an anonymous reader of vgmonks for a month or so. This after retiring my shaman and starting a monk that is now level 34.

In previous mmorpgs (eq for 3 years and wow for 2 years to mention the longest ones) I've played all sorts of characters. Shadow Knight lvl 65 (this is my fd pull experience), Enchanter lvl 62, Warlock lvl 61 and wow Shaman 70. All these characters has seen end game raiding. I've done tanking, healing, range dps and cc. Loved playing enchanter in Karnor's Castle where I've derailed many crap pulls and trains.
I haven't played any melee dps class though and as I'm a big fan of FD it was time for the monk in VG. I'm loving it 

I'll probably continue beeing a silent reader, but I wanted to add some statements here and there so... Now I'm registered.