Ok, i don't play harmonious, i don't play drunken, while i occasionally read about them, i don't comment.  I dont want to tell them what they do/don't want for their class.  So to The Dragons...

What are we looking for in this class?

Yes i know it has to be in balance with other character classes... but for us that's a good thing, as we're pretty sadly behind the other monk types, and especially behind the other dps classes.  I personally still disagree with our 'utility', our usefullness to a group setting being brought through AoE attacks.  Groups i join just scream at me when i do this ;p
It's bad for the group, bad for me.  It takes utility away from crowd control based character classes.  It's not a win for anyone.

So what do we really need?  And we need to look at the whole experience, not just top end.

Death to AOE!

That's all i have at moment, but seems the perfect start to fix The Dragon
DPS yes
AOE no

Sounds insane to me  ... hell i'll try it ;p

Hmm, somewhere i've heard the opposite regarding deconn crystals... ill see if i can find my source

i'll admit it's out of topic but... where's Quinn?

I know you said you'd be working more Q, and time isn't on your side...
But would love to hear a word from ya your still alive and kickin
Hoping to hear your thoughts on some of these subjects too
Hope all's good, Rho

Note on the FD weirdness...

It's not just undead, seems to be any mob that can see through normal invisibility
Skeeters in VT doing the same thing to me



yes i went slumming ;p

hmm, abilities that leave the mob vulnerable to more damage, i like it
Am amazed people still remember Eq2 stuff, then i remember not as many left it as soon as i did.  Game was too much like work for me... grind grind grind.  So much button mashing you couldn't speak during a fight.

Khana, loved your ideas when combined with the other Dragon suggestions.

Fuji, glad to see your inputs, and dedication to balance..

But i agree with Fujitsu also... input from non dragons caused us so many headaches from Beta til now, i'd rather nonDragons just stay out for a bit please, Fujitsu and others do a wonderful job policing our ideas and maintaining overall game balance, give us some time to hash things out, we'll ask for feedback later

Peace

They could just leave it as is and remove the timer/cost and i'll shut up ;p


Didn't see anyone suggest removing the ability Xon ... /shrug
No one wants us to lose it, we just want it more useful overall in game, and not just in APW
Especially Me, who yawns at the thought of raiding, peace

Thanks for the pics Tenison, THATS what i've been talking about

Monk Hawtness!

it's that 'Might' part that both fills me with hope, and makes me think... enjoy it while it lasts...

Nope, already tried asking for monk specific armor elsewhere.  Think on the offical forums.  But i figured QtM actually listens at times so....
I just wouldn't mind seeing them make use of the things they keep putting in.  DPS classes can wear light, but there's 0 reason for them to.  So give us a reason, or change it.  As Dragon, my mitigations already fubar, if i can wear gear that'll give me avoidance galore, increased parry/dodge, or put my crit procs through the roof, i'd do it.  I already know i can't take a hit regardless of what the ac says :p

I think it's the orcs that need dresses most ;p


I'd just like to see that offered option exploited some.  We can wear light armor, so put some out there that we'd use.  And if it so happens that your bp gives you a more martial arts look, all the better.  As graphic intensive as vanguard is, i'm often surprised how many opportunites they skipped over.  Bracers should have graphical looks that change, same with arm armor.  Add some variety to appearances, so people stop looking so much the same.  Monks can wear light armor, but currently it'd be pointless.  I was just thinking t hey could add some pieces in that you'd think twice about wearing.  That's all, just a food for thought statement to QtM.  I still also feel we need alot more variety in our weapons, both in type, and in graphics.  It's one of those things that come with a game over time.  Sure there's plenty of more important things that need done in vanguard first... but not every resource is tied up into those same things.  And perhaps along the way, they'll discover new ways to improve the game somehow... sorta fine tune the game engine etc.  Not an earth shattering post, yet hey it was in my thoughts a few times.  It's not often i've seen players geared up and said wow, look at them.

Since monks can wear light armor... any thoughts been given QtM to adding sets of armor that melees can use with a different emphasis in stats to make them appeal more to us?  Obviously AC would be lower on light armor, but you could compensate for it with greater avoidance/dodge adds to a degree...

I just want some Martial Arts gear :p
I miss my full set of Dalnir armor with the bare chested look, or my all black pantherskins   

What can i say... there's times when i'd rather just look the part + socialize (role play)

Good Khana, that's what i wanted, more...

And you nailed my big issue Fujitsu, weeks ago we heard that, and since... i've been scanning posts etc, hoping for some info, clues, anything really.  I know there's a solution to haste coming, which we've all sort of convinced ourselves means a seperation of auto attacks and special attacks.  But Dragon still needs reworked, worked out, and there's no word coming of what's coming.  So that leaves the reimagining to us.  Maybe they have a vision, a plan... til we learn there's, let's see if we can't flesh out some new ideas.  Just trying to keep that kinda thinking alive

So open invite to all you number crunchers out there, those who've experienced a variety of games, character types... let's build the better Beast

Sorry bout the bad numbers, my memory stinks and i've been off monk a bit.  But agree, the damage add needs to be straight across, spells and melee, not just the melee.  It's our wack em stance.  The extra melee haste would be great if /when they ever get it fixed.  I'm sure a few suggestions i had aren't current enough with some of our big issues.  But i'm trying to recall problems i was having throughout the game, not just at 50.  I think that's how we need to approach things.  You can't be broken for 49 lvls and then just suddenly work.  Aum Ti is gained when? 40+?  Im just recalling alot of time spent OOendurance, hoping for a counter to pop.

Like the idea for meditate, but 5 minutes for 15% lost when your hit?  seems costly.

Seems alot could be fixed by swapping those aoe's for some straight out damage, some more weaknesses to exploit, and better scaling of abilities.  I'll be honest, im more interested in seeing this approached more by others than what i might suggest.  I'm stubbornly refusing to swap styles, though i do plan to have 1 of each time monk,  and wanting some work moving again on Dragon sooner rather than later. 

Real curious how others would feel about a revamp on The Dragon

Many times in the past i've thought, i'd gladly exchange what i felt were useless AoE attacks for some nice DoT attacks.  As Dragon is supposed to be the heavy hitter of the Monks, and as Monks are for the most part strictly DPS, with minimal utility... i'm always confused why the Dragon is more of a damage monster in combat.  But at least we get all these cool AoE attacks.  Oh wait, those aren't very welcome are they... what's that you said? Crowd control?  Oh ok, so you'd prefer i not use these?  I guess i do see your points...
  Seriously, the truth to date is the Dragon doesn't offer anything to a group other than dps, it's what we do, it's all we do.  Let's do it better.  Rather than having combat abilities that go unused, give us something to Kick out the Jams!  Toss out those AoE attacks, i dont like them, i don't feel the need to use them.  They're useless to me.  Oh sure, if i'm blowing through a few greys i'd consider it, but why would i bother?  Im sure we're not being encouraged to farm gear from lower lvl mobs are we?  Toss them, give me some DoT attacks.  Let me put some damage in there that keeps coming, wounds that won't stop throbbing, hurting, bleeding... i'm not smacking your face, im busting you up, bruised outside, cracked ribs, internal bleeding.  You are in pain!.  Give Dragons the ability to damage over time, and throw in some extra weaknesses, this is dps... this is why we're here.

  How bout an offensive form that has a nice add to damage generated.  +20%.  But wait, there's more.  Endurance regen (Something i'll notice).  I dont want damage in short bursts, i want sustained ouput.  I want to be able to fight a bit more tirelessly overwhelming my opponents with a steady stream of damage, not just a little puff of output now and then.  You want a cost to t his?  Sure, np.  I'll take a penalty to dodge/parry.  I'm throwing everything i got at you, I'm disregarding my own safety, counting on a strong offense to take you down before me.  You are the prey, I am the Dragon.
  Defensive stance:  If im using this, i'm either alone, or things are real bad.  For the most part i think this ones nicely done, though i think a parry/dodge bonus wouldn't be unbalancing, and would fit into the idea very well.  Maybe the ac bonus should be % based instead of a flat rate, though i'd prefer it if it just scaled a bit better through the lvls.  Same for the resist adds.  Overall among all the classes, alot of the adds given need to be set to scale better through the lvls.  What starts out a nice addition quickly becomes dated, and ultimately forgotten.
  Neutral stance:  The heal of course on this needs to be adjusted to scale better through the lvls.  It's a nice timesink reducer when you first gain it, but it doesn't live up to it's purpose as the lvls outgrow it.  But i don't think that's enough, it needs a little something.  Jin regen.  Will allow us to buff up faster, get back in the action faster, and prepare more for upcoming battles.  Handy little Jin regen.  Meditate is nice, but why should monk be only class in game that needs to sit on it's butt to be ready for combat.  I'd revamp meditate some, leave the Jin regen, but add some other benefits to make it useful and used more. 

  I've got some ideas i'd like to toss out, and would love to hear some from others.  I know we've tried this before, but i think we're losing sight on what The Dragon needs to be playable, and fun.  Some extra food for thought ideas, that's all this is, and maybe a way to get us moving The Dragon forward again.  We can't wait for a fix if no one has an idea of what we want/need.  Take a good look at the bard, the ranger, the rogue... look at their abilities.  What do we need to be the DPS without all of their utility?  Someone, somewhere is waiting for us to solvel this.  Let's not keep them waiting.