Anyone notice any difference in the way secrets damage is being applied.

Damage from fire / ice seems to be displayed as damage over time, and doesn't seem to be applied to ranged attacks

I like the Tank aspect of the Drunken, but as far as raiding goes, it's not a viable option unless your tanking a caster.
I have Tanked small 2 group excursions into apw to pop minis for ore etc. it can be done with evasion over 65% w/out reed etc, just nowhere near the best option and a Parry sword is a must.

Granted aggro management can be done by a monk if he has to tank - All out Burst DPS and take the aggro in Offensive stance with mitigation penalty, or Midrange Haste stance for Hategain, Defensive Stance should be our Tanking Stance (Hategain added to the Slaps)

Monk mitigation just isn't up to par with plate and I don't believe they even considered Avoidance tanking an option for APW and beyond.

Just take a quick look at APW/Raid mob itemization, now look at the amount of plate gear with Mitigation on it as opposed to the amount of Medium armor with Avoidance / Evasion (think theres a Helm from Admiral, Boots From Zagius and Cloak from Essal). None of our Class armor has any evasion/avoidance, but it does have Damage stats.

The thing is the Drunken style doesn't really flesh out until you wind up with errant in the mix. I would hold with what suggestions you are going to put forward until the Damage fix / Combat changes are in and see where we stand.

Since Tanking is out I would have to go with DPS, Jin Surge is about the only group buff we need i think, (Just remember it works off who you have targeted defensive). Want more buff potential for a Drunk? Have him be able to pass out Stat Wine or Wine that applies a Short 1-5 min duration Damage buff or something, would fit the role of a drunk somewhat.

~wtb perma stun animation for drunks~

I've 3 pieces made so far, Arms (way to common) , Wrist , and Belt, 2 more for for the set proc to be worthwhile. I'll prolly wind up with wavebreakers tunic before i get that one , we're a tad bit slower progressing on PVP

Gratz on the BP

"So drunken monks already have a better offensive stance than harmonious"

Dont know about the harmonious, but as far as a drunken goes, my stances change regularly, I use them ALL , you won't catch me using offensive to tank etc, or defensive to dps, Granted i can do both with midrange but I only use that for the hate gain atm + the cost reduction.

Harmonious is and has been the monk of choice for most monks I've seen.........with Dragon being the least viable, and drunken in the middle....This has changed alot since beta, when everyone had a dragon, Drunken and Harmonious were 50/50 or something like that.

Your suggesting that drunken offensive take a hit, if our defensive gets any attention? the - mitigation is a deterrent for using offensive as it is. If thats the case the Harmonious Defensive should what ? receive a downgrade since it is far to close to the drunken defense?

There are 3 Viable Monk Paths, No one should outweigh the other, each has its pros/cons, if you look back in the patch history, Drunken has received the LEAST amount of attention out of the 3 choices availible.

Suggesting improvements would be helpful, complaining about suggestions with a valid argument is helpful, Complaining   about suggestions on an assumption.....well we all know what happens when you assume anything....

Are we sure about that? as in confirmed by a dev? Or have they just not been found yet, took forever to initially find the 2 that were found, there could be more out there.....

Thats good to know, not that I'll change, Drunk since beta, think I'll stay inebriated .

Now if they would just add a permanent Stunned Animation to the Drunken Monk ...

It does work, just may not allways be enough for tank to get snap aggro back etc if others are beating on the mob going all out dps, It being Resisted Sucks. If tank doesn't have aggro everyone else should stop dps to let tank get aggro returned to him anyways, Goading slap comes in handy there

I pop it whenever the refresh is up, I notice a difference if i dont use it, but who knows could be bugged as fool hardy swagger is

The Continental DS is not added to the Slap from our defensive, least it does not show up like that for me and i've played drunken since beta2, the continental damage shield shows up as Mob takes XX damage from your damage shield on average this one may be anywhere from 30-50 depending what continental stuff i swap in/out

. Where defensive Stance shows up as you slap mob for XXX etc. They are separate entities...Separate damage shield effects, and i do consider the damage shield portion of our defensive as Utility. Now they should add Hate to the Slap portion of our damage shield......That would be even better utility.......Who wouldn't get mad at being slapped every time they took a swing at ya ;P

If they put stagger on the same timer as CK you'd wind up using one of our other attacks less which would not be good.

I have that upgrade as well, don't think i will be testing it to see though, may want to /petition in game and get an answer from a GM, or have Quinn ask a dev etc, good question btw.

Now just need Superior Goading Slap

It is More Hatred to your Defensive Target , not hatred from you to it etc. If you are tanking can give yourself hatred, if you have a plate tank in group have him targeted defensive to give him some additional hate for better aggro.

Yes you are wiped from Hate list on a Successful FD

Still don't see us needing any major avoidance addition to our defensive as it would take away from the damage shield portion of it. We have other ways of increasing avoidance, reed/stagger etc
Think mitigation would be more suited (mainly since our offensive reduces mitigation + mit for defensive wouldn't be out of line)
The damage shield portion of defensive increases with stats i believe, i know mine slaps for about 135+ unbuffed, ill have to check it raid buffed and see what the diff is.

I do agree that harmonious defensive is too close to ours i don't really see it as being better than ours, we do have an aum ability that lowers ability cost etc.

I will have to test slap hands a bit more, only time i've just let anything hit me testing it was against another player, and i let my damage shields kill him.........ill have to re-examine logs

I'm still fine with Staggering the way it is........can be macro'd to make it more useful which is nice since secrets procs with every hit....it not being on global cooldown is what gives it its utility, for that alone the 20 endurance is fine.

Would be nice if there were 4-5 ppl removing stance on every raid heh not allways the case on pvp server if anything needs a cost reduction its pushing hands imo.

Drunken Swagger - I agree should be 20 sec duration, I'm fine with the 2 jin cost.

We sure that Slap Hands is actually damaging us?

I know in the combat log it states that we BLOCK the attack and slap the enemy for XXX damage etc, but the hit from the mob still goes through 90% of the time, so its not really Blocked. So is the mob damage going through the damage you're referring to?

If is says we block then slap, the block should stop the mobs hit from landing as far as I'm concerned or at least reduce the damage it does if it is intended to go through since it was blocked.

The Jin cost to it is rather high at the moment for it as well , if it Stops the mob Damage with the block etc then the cost is justified though.

Foolhardy Swagger - yup it's bugged

Staggering fist, i think the 20 end is ok since it is not on global cool down

Not sure defensive needs much in the way of more avoidance since it has a damage shield included with it, if it is all avoid whats the point of the damage shield then.......Possibly Add some Mitigation instead

I agree the + hate needs to be moved to the defensive stance, as it is now ill tank in the midrange stance just for the hate it gives, Originally it was on the offensive stance ....that was no good, Midrange stance is slightly better, Defensive is where it needs to be.

Pushing Hands - Is it intended to have to try and Push Mob from stance 5 + times for it to be effective ........Trying to push some mobs in APW from stance  takes entirely too many attempts , possibly change the endurance cost if this is the case


Baruka
Drunken Monk of Sartok

was checkin the soe boards etc under test undocumented changes  and came across this.

"-Fist of Celerity has received a nerf.. It now does 1/2 dmg or in some cases 1/4."

any know if it is true? intended ?

Was wondering if anyone has noticed that PVP against any healer that uses a reactive heal totally stops our secrets of Fire/Ice/Transcendence from going off at all.

Have tested this on Clerics and Shaman.

The level of the reactive heal does not seem to matter, any of them totally block any damage from secrets from occurring.
I knew there were issues with crit chains not working if they used reactives or whatever, but no proc damage?

If any get bored or whatever test it out for yourselves, and /bug it.....

Baruka

Nerve Strike I  -  need to be out of combat to use, you used to be able to turn off autoattack and use this skill (beta 3) now turning off autoattack does not remove you from combat , if the mob attacks you it is always considered in combat , makes the skill quite useless, on a side note, "IF" you are grouped and use FD then you can use this ability, In beta 3 i used it pulling to split mobs. can't use it that way in its current state

Drunken Mastery - Staggering Punch II is an exact copy of Staggering punch I there is no difference (at least not in the tool tip etc..)

Baruka