Maybe if you're in Aum Liat, but past 40 chances are you'll be in Aum Ti most of the time.  With run speed 100%, soaring leap isn't going to get you very close at all...

Yeah I know, my shurikens are all trained up and I have soaring leap on my keyboard and use it constantly.  It still will not give us enough speed to catch up with an opponent if they're kiting us however. 

I know that some of you don't care about PVP since you don't play on PVP servers, but I assure you, if you think Monks are bad in PVE, they're 10x worse in PVP.  To be honest, the main problem is NOT our damage.  Though subpar, it is not what is holding us back.

The fact that nearly every other class can slow you and kite you and our inability to do anything about it is what is going to keep us back permanently.  "But Riot, we have Storm Stride!"  Indeed we do, optimists!  However, if you don't have any Jin when you get attacked you are completely and utterly screwed.  I don't know about you, but I don't often get attacked when I'm in a group and constantly have Jin, but only when I'm walking around town with no Jin built up.  And even if you DO get a Storm Stride off, you'll likely still be slowed when you teleport to the enemy.  You'll only be able to get in 1 hit and the target will have already moved away to continue kiting you.  If Storm Stride does indeed break your slow (which I'm pretty sure it doesn't) then the opponent can simply re-slow you and continue kiting you. 

I propose that Storm Stride be changed from Jin to Endurance so that it is actually worth using if we get in trouble.  There is no way I can get any Jin at all to use the skill if I get rooted, as all the Jin-giving abilities require melee hits up close.  This is from a Dragon Style monk's perspective mind you, not Harmonious so we don't have Jin-restoring stances or anything.  Storm Stride is really just another of MANY skills that I don't use because there is no point in it.  If the skill isn't changed to Endurance, we need some type of ability that automatically gives us a small amount of Jin, such as:

Inner Burst:  Accumulates 3 Jin automatically.  Cooldown 2 min / 5 min. 

The other thing, probably more important, is the fact that like I said, nearly every other class gets some kind of stun/root.  Our roles as Monks are to use brute force to break the opponent's body, no?  Then why is it logical that WE do not get a root ability, like a Hamstring?  We need to be able to keep people in Melee range in order to have a CHANCE to be successful, but we have no chance to do this whatsoever.  Yet, like I said, pretty much every other class has an ability to slow or completely stun their target.  I really push for a slowing ability.  If we could Storm Stride + Slow, we'd have a lot more chance in PVP.  I just don't see the reason why us, a class (that's supposed to be, but currently is not) devoted entirely to either totally destroying our opponent or debuffing our opponent can't do a staple ability that is necessary for our success while so many other classes can.

As of right now, we do not have a chance against pretty much any other class in PVP.  We NEED a slowing ability and a way to use Storm Stride when it actually matters (I've NEVER used in PVE because there is really no point) or else no amount of DPS-tweaking will ever matter. 

Sometimes I notice (especially when I've applied a DoT or if I'm using Reed in the Wind / Swaying Step) that when my Stinging Backhand pops up and I use it, it heals the mob first for the same damage it deals, which brings the target's HP back to where it was before using it.....

I never even use Secrets anymore, so I don't care that they're broken really.  Seriously at level 45, my secret of ice adds about 100 damage per hit and barely ever freezes the target.... why would I use that instead of Ashen Hand which usually hits for like 1500?  Or Jin Surge and Feet of the Fire Dragon?  I seriously just don't see a point in wasting jin on buffs that barely even add anything.  Does Iron Hand even give you better damage now or is it still bugged?

What is loooooveee.  Devvies don't hurt meeeee don't hurrrt meee nooo moorrrrrreeee.

Well I'm level 45 in that area, I guess I'll let you know soon enough.

     Vanguard Build 1809 Patch Notes 4/16/2007 TEST SERVER

    ADVENTURING NOTES
    - Bard Emboldening Embellishment now scales from 10 to 18, depending on your level.
    - Druid increased damage on Starfall and Earthquake.
    - Druid Added a 2 minute refresh to Taproot
    - Druid Drastically increased the HP of the phenomena Colossus
    - Druid All berry spells now summon the berries in your targets bag.
    - Druid Increased the effectiveness of Roseberries
    - Monk Deadly Adder Hands duration now scales to 32 seconds at the final version.
    - Monk Eagle Claws duration now scales to 24 seconds at the final version.
    - Monk Eagle Claw now causes the Armor Chink weakness.
    - Monk Wave Hand in Cloud has been given new versions at level 38 and 50.
    - Monk Lowered the Jin cost of Wave Hand in Cloud to 6 and the refresh to 20 minutes.
    - Monk The self buff portion of Withering Palm now lasts for 60 seconds.
    - Monk Increased the damage of Withering Palm
    - Monk The effects of North Wind Breaks the Trunk will now display damage numbers both above the head of the target and in combat text (to see open chat options for your combat tab and turn the Others Damage Success filter on)
    - Monk Increased the damage of the effect of North Wind Breaks the Trunk.
    - Monk The self buff portion of Steal the Wind now lasts for 5 minutes.
    - Necromancer - Abomination PVP damage has been reduced.
    - Necromancer Increased damage of level 50 grafts.

    CRAFTING NOTES
    - Corrected an issue with the Mara figurehead quest that was preventing some people from starting.
    - Samkara of the Arcane Camarilla is no longer Stuck!
    - A few small mid-level crafting quests have been added to New Targonor.

    DIPLOMACY NOTES
    - The flattery rebuttal Knavish Demeanor now costs 2 Flattery to play, removes 3 Flattery from your opponent, returns 2 Flattery to the player, and refreshes in 3 to 5 turns, making it a far more effective rebuttal for all those knaves out there. We know who you are. (NOTE: This note will have an image link attached to it when the notes go live)
    - Fixed a bug whereby Martok diplomats could not receive a new tier 1 horse to undertake their tier 2 horse quest.
    - Added a proviso to the Kojan tier 2 horse quest where you can have another copy of Ravelas poem if you previously completed her sidequest and are doing the horsequest for a second time (or did it while the quest was broken and deleted her poem after you finished her sidequest.)
    - Those who have been locked out of Bordinars Cleft writs should now be able to receive them from the Petitioners once again.
    - A series of interlocking quests are now available on Qalia for all diplomats of 40 skill or higher. They begin in Khal with Mina Zeya, Hathor Zhi with Scion AikTagi, Mekalia with Egata Reburleby, and Lomshir with Qarouk Telourshed. Complete all four of the questlines to assemble a full tier 1 suit with multiple presence types attached to it.
    - The quests Blind Womans Bluff and A Charming Deception are available outside of Khal for diplomats of 40 skill or higher to earn new cards. They begin with Weaver Jekaqie, who lives in the lighthouse atop the cliffs outside of Khal.
    - The quests Cant Get No Respect and Respect is Earned are available in Tawar Galan for diplomats of 40 skill or higher to earn new cards. They begin with Warden Allegran.
    - The following Diplomacy clothing has had its special ability disabled pending an exploit fix. An additional Presence value has been added to them until they are reverted back to their original values.
    - Orange Entertainers Gown
    - White Instigators Vest
    - Orange Gown
    - White Vest
    - Orange Socialite's Gown
    - White Troublemakers Vest
    - Orange Communicator's Breeches
    - Orange Gossiper's Skirt
    - Orange Speaker's Breeches
    - Orange Skirt
    - Orange Speaker's Breeches
    - Orange Speaker's Skirt

    WORLD POPULATION NOTES
    - Abammisi Lake, Tehatamani Empire and Tehatamani Harbor Many 2 dot mobs in these locations have new abilities.
    - Abammisi Lake, Tehatamani Empire and Tehatamani Harbor Quest itemsshould now display a loot confirmation box if the entire group can loot the quest item.
    - Afrit - Handler Aerco in Afrit is looking for trustworthy adventurers to run an errand to Nusibe Necropolis. But he will not give this important task to anyone who does not have enough faction. Rumor has it there are weapons involved.
    - Afrit Flarewings around Afrit and in Sands of Sorrow will no longer flee when low on health.
    - Cragwind Ridge - The drop rate of Mistral Slivers in Cragwind Ridge has been increased significantly.
    - Cragwind Ridge - Named Cyclops in Cragwind Ridge will now always drop at least 2 Mistral Slivers.
    - Gorgalog Swamp - Treants of the Flordiel are now harvestable through Lumberjacking.
    - Gorgalog Swamp - Gorgaloks are now harvestable through skinning.
    - Gorgalog Swamp - Ichtakhta are now harvestable through Quarrying.
    - Gorgalog Swamp - The Flordiel Emissary, Esurin, is now indifferent to all players.
    - Gorgalog Swamp - The Flordiel Emissary, Esurin, now offers all quests to players regardless of their faction level.
    - Gorgalog Swamp - The Flordiel Emissary, Esurin, will now replace the Flordiel Guidance Ring if it is destroyed.
    - Gorgalog Swamp - All Mnalus now have a chance to drop "Undamaged Fungal Fiber".
    - Gorgalog Swamp - Increased the drop rate of Gorgalok Tribal Necklaces, Gorgalok Totems, Lesser Flordiel Symbols, Flordiel Symbols, Ichtakhta Eyes, and Ichtakhta Antennae.
    - Lucent Outpost - Experience and coin rewards for many quests from the Lucent Outpost have been adjusted
    - Pantheon of the Ancients - The heavy-fighter Cloak of the Pantheon's ability, Guardian of Moraj, now properly nullifies 50% of all damage taken for 15 seconds upon use for the wearer's group. As always, all Cloaks of the Pantheon are only usable within the Immortal Sanctum.
    - Shoreline Ruins - Stormwynd Zombies will now drop intact essences.
    - Shoreline Ruins - The inhabitants of Stormwynd Keep and Stormwynd Beacon now respawn more quickly.
    - Temple of Dailuk The hyenas have had their population density decreased.
    - Temple of Dailuk The Seared Bones are now flagged as KOS.
    - Xennumet - The drop rate of Xennu shards has been increased (This took effect last patch, but was not mentioned)
    - Xennumet The weapons from the Xenn technology quest lines have had their rarities increased to heroic.
    - Xennumet The main Xennumet quest line is now active.
    - Xennumet - The actual Xennumet dungeon can now be accessed but requires completion of the main quest line first.
    - Xennumet - New Xenn tech quests have been added, including upgrades to Xeno dar greaves and breastplate, as well as new items altogether.

    Items
    - Gift of the Prince's proc effect, Infuriate, has been modified. It continues to increase melee damage caused by 20%, but now also decreases the time between auto-attacks by 20% as well as adding an amount of hate to your offensive target on behalf of your defensive target. The hate adding portion of the effect will not fire if you are your own defensive target. The proc rate and duration of the effect has been reduced.
    - The drop rate of intact essences has been increased for all types.

    CODING NOTES
    - Some significant enhancements to graphics performance on the High and Highest Performance settings should be seen.

    ~The Vanguard Team

This is about what I've noticed.  It seems to me that the 2hd damage should be much higher, as I do not believe the 2x damage on crits is working, nor is the high damage cap on the weapon affecting our skills.  If the 2x damage started working I wouldn't complain, but like I said, I barely notice a difference on my Graystone Bladestaff of Purification (pretty much the best wep in the game for us I guess) against my Claws of Bloodletting/Mighty Fistgrips (like 33 dps and 40 on the handwraps). 

For Handwraps DPS, can you pretty much add both the DPS's up to get a good idea?  Cuz I thought there was a penalty of SOME sort, but maybe not.  I just wish the 2hd bladestaff would be more worth using, as it seems pretty average compared to lower level rare fist weps when it's a level 46 heroic.....

Um it's a slow 2hd. 

http://vg-en.curse-gaming.com/database/items/details/1391287/graystone-bladestaff-of-purification/

186-279 damage. 

Posted by Shengyi on the equipment board:

I did semi "study" on weapon damage kind of and basically what i discovered is this:
Monk abilities don't seem to register the strength bonus but auto attack does (basically the weapons will hit for about the same using specials)

When i went from a 40DPS bladestaff and 40ish DPS martial staff to a 71 DPS bladestaff, i honestly noticed no major difference in how hard my abilities hit.  I was fighting skeletons in graystone so i was hitting harder than normal, but whether i used the 40 DPS martial staff, the 40 DPS bladestaff, or the 71 DPS bladestaff i still hit the mobs with thousand fists for between 7k-10k consistently with any of the three weapons.  This CLEARLY means something isn't working as intended, because when you nearly double the damage of your weapon (from 40 to 71) and you add about 24 strength, you should see a HUGE difference in your damage output, but sadly i did not.  When i parsed h2h weapons compared to my 2hand weapons, the 2handers usually parsed higher.  I have a 40DPS handwrap and a 37DPS handwrap and it felt like i was doing more damage, i was throwing numbers out all over the place, using secrests etc, but the parse said 2handers were doing more.


------

This is the primary issue that needs to be addressed in my opinion.  Making our abilities take our weapon and strength more into consideration will clear up sooo many DPS issues and make our overall DPS go up to where it should be.  That way it will actually reward players for speccing into Strength or working hard for getting the Graystone staff for instance.... I got mine and was very very underwhelmed, as it does about the same damage as my 2 35/40 dps hand to hand weps. 

Well I think we should give this info to Quinn, as it seems pretty important.  Doesn't seem like he checks the other areas besides Monk General (though I'm sure he does =P  just never see any posts over here).  It seems like STR and max damage for weps should affect abilities the most, as auto-attack in this game is pretty unimportant compared to abilities.  This seems like the biggest deal when fixing our DPS. 

Yeah was kind of concerned about this actually as well.... my new Graystone Bladestaff of Purification (72 dps...) isn't really outdamaging my two 35-ish claws that much.  Thought I'd be seeing a big difference but it's kind of dissapointing.

I just want to confirm that I learned Reed in the Wind 1 from the level 25 Infineum Reflections (and the other ghostly infineum mob that's level 26) in Infineum Plateau area.  Don't know if anybody found this, but it's not just in RoTK. 

What we really need to compete in PVP at all is our own slow/hamstring ability, as we get kited all the time and our only way to succeed is to constantly be up in people's face.

ALSO I think we should make Feign have a purpose in PVP.  It shouldn't make us unattackable, but it should make the other person lose their target on us, so it actually looks like we're dead.