I see a lot of horse's dungs in the devs' arguments. If the tooltip says an ability allows you to swing twice, there is no mechanical reason why it should not deal double damage. There is, however, a meta-gaming reason - devs wanting control over DPS.

I am still of the opinion that what should be fixed is not us, but the buffs that lead to the overbloating of the damage. I still haven't seen a logically consistent argument against that stance.

Anyway, who cares. I'm done with Sony. See you guys in another online lifetime...

/signed.

Welcome to the forums, mate.

My problem with statements like "It won't be that bad, they're gonna be balancing us again", is that the devs have already stated that they believe the Monk class to be finished. We're not going to receive any new revamps. Plain and simple.

I fail to see the problem. The biggest factor in the equation is Quickening Jolt, not Fist of Celerity, nor Errant Strikes. I don't see why WE should be fixed - it's Quickening Jolt that gets applied to the wrong things.

Welcome, Fusoya and good luck convincing the devs of our views.

You can't possibly mean that we should be dealing less DPS than a Bard, could you?

Rogues have totally different formulas for everything, as most of our finishers are still melee + X as opposed to 300% weapon / 400% weapon like other melee classes. You can't understand Iron Hands' usefulness without discussing our damage formulas, based on melee damage + X. Aren't we supposed to be the kings of sustained DPS, anyway? And isn't a formula of melee dmg + X representative of that flat damage scale without big spikes? Either they scrap that idea and uniformise the formulas across the board for melee and ranged to all have 300% or 400% weapon damage + X, or they think about it and come up with a rational "fix" for once.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Thousand fists is the ONLY finisher that uses the 300/400% formula, and it's on a minute reuse timer. Like Rogues, Rangers and Bards don't have 6k abilities that can be used every minute. Keep it real.

And to finish it off... I really don't see why Rogues should be the masters of melee damage. Monks have nothing else to offer, but Rogues do. We should be dealing equal DPS, more or less.

I call bluff on this one, too. The reason Rogues and Monks are about where they should be and the others aren't is simple: aggro management. No more, no less. Fix other classes' aggro and you'll see similar damage numbers.

This is exactly why I don't like parsers all that much. People will figure the people being parsed are representational, while they might very well just suck / excel at their class, have better gear, etc.

Even IF we do more damage than them, the balance has been tipped in their favour for so long it's not even funny anymore. If the disparity is caused by bugs, that should be fixed. In my mind, it's likely caused by two things: over the top buffing and poor aggro management for casters. Considering that our average hits are somewhere between 1.5 and 3k and theirs are upwards of 4k and given that the damage output of their crits is higher than ours, those can be the only reasons.

It's a very strange thing that SOE only listens to the players when it comes down to nerfing others. If they go all black and white on this one, too, like they've done in the past:
- instead of fixing EE, they took it out;
- instead of writing trivial loot code, they make you lose credit upon 1 measly attack from a lowbie;
- instead of finding a proper solution for stealthing in APW they made it impossible.
- etc, etc
then they have finally proven to me that they're unfit to govern this game. If they nerf my already below-par Dragon, then I'm out and not ever coming back to any SOE game.

It's the Western one of the two Hakrel zones. The cave itself is just NE from the mercenary camp and the mob is in the first big room you come across.

Yeah, makes plenty of sense. Thanks for taking the time to explain your thoughts.

Nice ideas. But I don't think a Disciple should EVER deal similar damage to a Monk. We're a DPS class, they just happen to melee.

The difference is Secret of Fire doesn't consume any Endurance, Energy or Jin, (nor does it have a button you need to click for it to go off) therefor is not an attack. Suppose you had a weapon that procced fire damage on every attack. Would you call its fire damage an attack? Bet you wouldn't. Procs aren't attacks. Neither are damage shields.

I use it until the attack call comes and while the debuffs are still building up - to make healing on the initial couple of blows easier to do. Otherwise, there's little point in using it, yeah.