ah I see - so now it displays correctly then?

Since I haven't been around since the start I am trying to dig through the changes and buf fixes and tool tips atm.

While updating Chunli's lvl 50 Dragon Monk Skill Screenshots I noticed this:



Old version by Chunli on the left, new one taken yesterday on the right. What's up with that?

Monks were always about evasion. I do agree to some extent with the above post.
Wasn't this what the style decisions are there for?
One style for more evasion another for more dps and such?
Overall our evasion and our base dps should be higher for all monks - but that's what we have been saying for ages now. 

It's in the dragon monk overview. Quinn has it in his Agenda too.

^

I noticed that too - like I mentioned. I seem to miss in lower mobs A LOT. I didn't really track much but during a short fight with a green mob I missed at least one or two times with skills maxed. But then, I do have 2.20 speed weapons and with haste on my gear and the lvl 50 Aum I get them under 2 secs now, which means I do hit in between skills as well.
More hits, more misses.

I really would love to have a pares tool which counts misses. I was too lazy to really count down all the misses in the log file and compare them with actual in combat time (but I probably should).

I also have to mention: I don't go for the big boom for obvious reaons. I was always going for steady dps and crits to not get too much burst damage.

I sure hope it's not obligatory now to get a 2h weapon to be able to keep up with others dps.

yeah I know - but compared to rare weapons it shouldn't be like that imo..

^
That's a nice idea, I'll add it to the list.
I am currently reworking Chunli's Overview of our lvl 50 skills and copy and pasting them into images. I'll post them as soon as Photoshop stops acting up on me.

Yup, Aspect of the Spirit Dragon was going to mention that too.

I sent you that log file Quinn, I hope it helps and I hope I didn't totall mess up reading them (or the parser I used).
I used both the parser we got from Kaij and the "parsethis" one. I think on Kaij's it even shows a higher dps for the Ranger.

I would be really curious if the results I got from the parsers were indeed accurate.
Of course it might also have to do with the fact that my weapons are below my level and the flat dps would be higher with my bare hands (at least considering the DROX UI DPS numbers (which I am not sure I can trust for bare hands)).

I don't really understand how rare weapons two levels below my actual adv level can be lower in dps then my hands..that's just plain wrong even with the latest changes to item stats.

Quinn, that is a good point. Those fights took several minutes due to the amount of HPs the bosses had.

He was as far as I can tell mostly in melee. He could have had enough space to use ranged however and I didn't really take specific note of which he was using. The log would tell but I sent it to Quinn, so they can hopefully get some good data out of it.

Something I noticed is that I missed A LOT. Also today while soloing some green mobs I noticed that my miss rate is quite high. It didn't used to be like that..

Uh first of all: Use paragraphs  please.  It's hard to read without any proper spaces in between.

Secondly, you are over-exaggerating. Yes, we have a lot of issues but it's not true that our abilities don't work. They do work fine but they need tweaking. The new Storm Dragon Stance is much better then the old one. Just the increased damage and crit rate alone are great. I do proc a lot in it too for around 900 to 1k at lvl 50.

Stinging backfist doesn't use endurance.

Yes we can't solo 3+ dot mobs, at least not in an efficient way. But you can always go to afrit and work for bags there. I am almost done with the 3k faction grind and I did all of it solo. Yes it is hard and yes it takes a lot of time but it can be done. Should it be done that way? No, not if almost every other class has it much easier.
Either way, I never had troubles soloing 2dot red mobs without much downtime. So saying we can't solo is just plain wrong.


There are a few spell caster classes who can but saying every other class but us can = wrong.

Like I said, we do have a lot of issues that NEED to be looked at but it doesn't help exagerating it either.

The shuriken issue has been around forever. They are bugged and you can as well go and buy the cheapest ones from the vendor. Other then the tiiiiiiny increase in range there will be no difference.

Like I said a few times already: it's the fact that sigil/soe doesn't know what the monk should be, together with bad itemization and a mess of a skillset, we still wait for someone to really look at us.

I can see you are totally annoyed about the current situation. I am too, but take a depp breath and count to 10

Well, since we had similar weapons it pretty much comes down to self buffs and skillset...big suprise there 

I was helping a guild group in Ruins of Vol Tuniel with slaying some nameds for the Wardship Armor Drops (. Lvl 42 5 to 6 dot mobs)

Group setup was:

Ranger (41)
Cleric (40)
BM (50)
Psi (46)
DK (40)
Me (50)

Now I do miss the weapons lvl 50+ simply because I don't really have a group to help me get the higher level weapons but I was really puzzled about the outcome when I checked the dps logs.

I have my possible self buffs up at all time. Was fully buffed by the other classes and in Storm Dragon Stance.
My DPS shows at 867.68 the Lvl 41 Ranger shows as 842.79 in two log parsers I checked (with slight differences).

Me (without accuracy and haste ratings)
Mainhand
Varesh's Last Resort
Damage 100 - 109 (46.22 DPS)
(plus some stats and 5% crit)

Offhand
Arbokk's Bonesplintered Bandages
Damage 100- 109 (47.27 DPS)

STR 420 / DEX 446
+145 Melee crit rating
+78 Melee Damage rating
(only gear without buffs)

Ranger
Mainhand
Barbed Mandible Shard (lvl 46)
Damage 89 - 108 (43.56 DPS)
(plus some stats and 5% critical hit)

Offhand
Assassin's Quick Blade (45)
76 - 115 (46.34 DPS)
(plus some stats and 5% critical hit)

STR 337 / DEX 408
+115 Melee crit rating
+38 Melee Damage rating
(only gear without buffs)

I mean WTH? at lvl 50 I should anytime outdamage a lvl 41 by a whole lot.
Do I suck so bad? 

Good observation - I can confirm that as well.

You can fd split nicely now, all they need to do is adjust the timers for the mobs to pace back to their spot.

I made a new Dragon Monk issue list with the updated and changed skills and issues.
Thanks to Chunli for starting this (I copy and pasted most of his/her list and added/changed a few things to have the current state. I merely redid this thread so we can keep it updated after Chunli "resigned".

[ Reference threads ]

• Monk Bugs/Issues thread
• Monk Wish List thread
• Stances discussion thread
• Dragon Monk skills at 50 thread[/url(will update this asap)]
• Wow..either slap in the face or bugged storm dragon stance..
• Dragon Issues

[ Dragon Monk Skills at lvl 50 ]
Thanks again to  Chunli for starting this. The skills with more prominent yellow titles have either had the tooltip changed or changes in values in general.

• Attacks
• Finishers
• Buffs and Misc
• Aums
• Stances
• Counters

[ Stances ]

• Storm still does not proc on multiple targets if using an AE and it procs.
• Dragon icon does not go away when you change out of the stance.
• Lowest Storm Dragon Stance seems to be bugged and not proc for what it is supposed to (can't verify  this myself)
• Need clarification about storm dragon mitigation penalty and how it is supposed to be calculated
• Seeing that clerics get titles with their affinities - why not give us monks titles linked to level and stance?

[ Area Effects ]
Our Divine AE Finishers have been slightly adjusted and are better after the changes. However lets break down the AEs which are supposed to be the Dragon's Strength:

• Divine finisher chain
  (1) Divine Typhoon 4 = melee damage + 492 (10 END, 1 min refresh)
  (2) Divine Avalanche 3 = melee damage + 516 / 540 (10 END, 1 min refresh)
  (3) Divine Tsunami 1 = melee damage + 618 ( 5 END , 1 min refresh)
• END using AEs
  Whirling Storm 5 = melee + 143 (34 END)
  Dragon Rakes Its Claw 3 = melee +  292, frontal only  (40 END)
• Jin using AE
  Dragon Breath 1 = 1030 - 1086 dmg, frontal only (8 Jin, 10 min refresh)

SO we have a 3 part AE chain, a normal AE, and 2 frontal AE attacks. Refresh times have been adjusted to our ae finishers (down to 1minute) but low damage and high end costs on Dragon Rakes Its Claws still hurts a lot.  Even though the timers were adjusted to 1 minute the AE finishers are still nowhere where they could be with the current damage. Chunli suggested 400% and I agree that this would by no means be overpowered.

Another Problem is that AE in groups is hardly ever an option. In my opinion we only have one finisher that is unique to Dragon Monks that is really always usable. What we need is at least another finisher that can be used in any situation.

Dragon Rake's it's Claw is way too costly with 40 End. Without Aum Ti you can get it off for 3 times before totally rendering yourself useless and having to wait for a crit to do more ae damage.

Dragon Breath Damage has been increased for some nice damage but honestly 8 Jin and a 10 minute refresh – meh. And it's frontal cone only.

[ Additional Skill Breakdown ]

• Dragon's Rage does pitiful damage for a 5 minute refresh/4 Jin cost. (353 -376 damage, always crits) and does NOT CRIT IF YOU MISS. Reduce the refresh greatly and it could be worth using. As it stands right now – it's a button to click to get a crit (if you are lucky).
• Cloud Dragon's Ruse is now at 2 minute refresh opposed to the old 5 minute/6 Jin attack. (melee + 350, , and always opens a finisher) which makes it a bit more worth using. The 1 second stun is still totally useless seeing the 2 second GC and only H2H weapons being viable to be beyond the 2 second cool down for auto attack.
• Three Finger Strike and Hammer Fist have had their damage adjusted slightly. Palm Explodes the Heart is still not worth to be a lvl 50 finisher. The chain we get like every other monk still does more damage in two hits then PEH in three. As it stands now Three Finger Strike and Hammer fist together do about the same damage as Thousend Fists or Thundering Fists alone (if it goes well..) and most of the time do more damage then PEH.  Why do we get so much hard coded damage as opposed to %?
• Lets have Thousand Fists chain have a chance of hitting 3 times, ala Windsong. Make it use weapon % mod rather than melee dmg + . Would also be nice to have a 3rd chain in this series.
• Gouging/Sundering Dragon Claw - Make them use weapon % mod, not melee damage + .

[ Aums ]

• Aum Liat should have the negative effect of having all attacks cost 25% more END removed, then it would be worth using
• Aum Ti should have the dodge component put back into it, but at the moment it is the Aum that Monks use once they have it
• Aum Kor needs to have more than 10% melee haste. Actually melee haste is basically useless with fists IMO. The ones you get at higher levels are all less than 2 delay. So anything that gives you haste is useless since using a skill resets your autoattack timer. And with less than a 2 delay, you will always get a swing in before your global cool down is up. Would be nice to see specials NOT reset your auto attack swings, therefore making haste beneficial to all classes, not just the ones that use a 2 hander, or really slow 1 hander.
• Idea for Aums/Secrets - lets have each style of Monk have a Secret/Aum unique to them. Also, you could probably make it so that Aums affect the group

[ Buff and Fluffs ]

• Jin Surge should not be consumed on a miss, on a buff, or on an autoattack. The buff should only be consumed on the next special attack. Jin surge should also not cancel out your finisher chain when you use it. Or better yet make it for the next 10 seconds type of buff.
• Aspect of the Spirit Dragon I do like the levitation aspect but for the jin cost and the chance of how fast invis breaks (including levitation), it's just insanely stupid. Make levi stay up even if invis breaks and lower the jin cost drastically. I also don't see any reason for this to be such a high level skill.
• FD needs after the stealth changes from the 11th May Patch some more testing. Some mobs take too long to wander back to their spots which makes FD pulling more of a pain then a reliable tool..
• Storm Stride still does not always teleport you to the target. Mainly seems bugged if you are moving or if the mob is partially behind an obstacle (low rock or stone). On top, using normal skills after Storm Stride doesn't apply the weaknesses it should.
  
  To make it not only a fluff spell: Why not add a little stun to the pve version? After all we are suprising the mob but even though we attack them from behind they even get in some hits before we do our attacks.
  
  For the PvP version make the same but probably adjust the recast (would need testing to not have it overpowered. It would at least add some kind of means for the monk to keep victims from running away.
• Iron Hands still has stacking issues. Sometimes it adds damage, sometimes it subtracts damage.
• Secrets currently use int again for base numbers.
• Heals currently use vitality again for base numbers.

[ Meditation ]
It would be nice to have some kind of effect so groups know that we are not just sitting around. Requested to restore the animation when learning an ability in meditation to what it was in beta - the same cloud rings, but you rising gently off the ground. What would also be easy to do, is adding a levitation / buoyancy effect to meditation all of the time, perhaps with a pulsing icon similar to the ones you see when you change stances.

Also, while meditating for new Dragon Skills, upon learning and switching back to meditation the chain icons get messed up. Some vanish and only relogging resets the bar to what it should be. This happens every time.

[ Weaknesses ]
For supposedly being the masters of opening up weaknesses there is much room for improvement. Even though most groups don't even look at this feature..

We open up

• Enraged
• Shaken (x2)
• Vulnerable

We exploit

• Enraged
• Dazed
• Staggered
• Soul Wracked

Maybe add in some vulnerability add/exploits to some more of our attacks, even if it means our finisher chain attacks, to really make us the masters of opening vulnerabilities. Don't need to exploit more of our own, just add in more options since that was one of the things we were told we could do well.

[ Conclusion ]
As it stands right now, every class in Vanguard can dish out dps. It seems that Sigil doesn't really know where the monk should chime in. We are supposed to be (together with rogues) the DPS classes of this game, however we are about the same as most other melee classe if not behind in damage output without having anywhere near the variety of skills other classes have and can contribute to groups.

Our Base Damage needs to be looked at again and not to mention that itemization still hurts specially pre-50. Most weapons are usable by Disciple too and most of them have vit/energyhealing stats.

[ Off topic ]

• WTB class specific armor at higher levels. Rahz Inkur looks like a pretty good spot to do this in. Could even have some of the stuff come from Nusibe. Make it start in Afrit, and gather armor drops from Rahz/Nusibe, as well as catalysts for the armor. Lets even toss in a new quest line that maybe takes us through all of the 45+ areas for another series of weapons. Graystone is nice and all, but lets see new stuff that will keep people playing and occupied when they hit 50.
• Animations have been adjusted a bit but could still be a bit less repetitive. Specially while using secrets most of the animations get replaced by a plain punching move

It is our understanding, well maybe interpretation, that by picking Dragon Style we give up group utility and evasion in favor of damage. Should we not stand head and shoulders above the other monks in damage? Also we should be pretty damn close to Rogues that are sneaking/behind/etc. (they have great utility in their darts/flechettes now, whereas before they had none to speak of). Rangers can have their edge in longer fights as they study the target or whatever. Groups should have a tough time deciding which melee DPS they want. A  Monk should be one of those choices.

Any additional input you have, let me know and I update the list accordingly.