Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
Your posts are more emotion than any reasoned logic, and fall apart in the face of any strong argument.
And as this post demonstrations, you're an self absorbed attention whore to boot.

That's not a personal attack either, just an observation.

I've cancelled my account, and I don't suspect I'll be back for months, if at all, when they finally fix the monk.

While technically playable and capable of leveling, why rush to 50 with one arm tied behind your back and a limp?
I'd much rather experience the class as it was intended to play.

Stop crying, it's just the cleric. They don't do much damage anyways.

Another issue I was just reminded of:
Jin Surge should not count for auto attacks, because it's very easy to have it "wasted" if you don't time it right - And you can't expect your teammates to time their attacks for it either.

There's a good list on this page by  Hanzou_Masamori
http://www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13268&page=2
He reflects many things already said, but says it well.

An issue related to the Monk and his effectiveness groups is that the vulnerability system has a certain about of intractability to most players. It could be improved to be easier to understand and easier to work with.

Suggestions.
1. Change the way openers and exploits are listed in the tooltips, because right now it confuses people and I always have to explain which is which. It's not intuitive.
2. There's enough for players to monitor during a battle without them also trying to watch the little vulnerability icons in the upper right. There are a few ways to improve this. One is to make the corresponding ability have a red outline or flash on the UI bar when a target mob can be exploited by it.
Another is to make the icon appear over the mob's head, or make the icon appear in the upper right corner very big, so that it's unmistakable that something is happening you can take advantage of - And people who don't understand the vulnerability system will not miss this, and will ask what it is and what they should do about it.
I'd go with the second idea, and then put a timer underneath the symbol so that you know how long youv'e got to exploit it before it disappears.

Yes, the monk's primary deal is damage, but to say they are a pure DPS implies that DPS is their one and only capability or concern - Which was never the case and never will be.
The only offensive fighter to make pure DPS their concern is the Rogue, and because of this they should and will always top the DPS charts among offensive fighters.


None of the classes are equal in terms of dealing damage. They are in the same ballpark, but the amount of damage they deal varies based on what else they have going for them.
The bard does the least because he has the most utility. Rangers do less than Rogues but have evasion and utility.

The Monk on this totem pole is suppose to be better than a Ranger in short fights, but worse than a Ranger in long fights.

So the Monk is never going to be the top of the DPS charts, and the class must be augmented in other ways to balance it out.
But there are many problems with the single form system as I've outlined.



You're way off.
The differences in capabilities between the bard and rogue is far more than 5%, and it doesn't just come down to flavor. They are fundamentally two very different classes that bring very different things to soloing or teaming.


Bard's aren't offensive healers.
Rangers aren't the equivalent of an offensive caster. The Ranger is a jack of all trades, mixing high damage with evasion, utility, and buffs.
Your attempts at comparative analysis fall apart when you don't understand the classes you're comparing.

Monks should have the best defense but don't to any significant degree.

The Monk is a unique case in that he has the flexibility to go the route of off/off, off/tank, or off/utility.
The problem is that the system is fundamentally flawed in several ways and just results in a weak monk, because neither form by itself brings enough to the table to make the Monk shine above the other offensive fighters.
The best path these days is harmonious, turning you into a weaker jack of all trades than the Ranger. The Dragon, pure DPS, is a waste of time when Rogues and Rangers outperform you. The Drunken is no longer viable since the evasion nerf, but before the nerf it WAS the one form that really set the monk apart from the other offensive fighters.

The Ranger gets to perform offensive, off tanking, and utility all at once.
The Monk should be able to perform offensive better than the Ranger to a small degree  if they go Dragon, but be inferior in tanking and utility.
The Monk should perform tanking better than the Ranger in Drunken to a large degree, but should be inferior in damage and non-tanking utility.
The Monk should be similar to the Ranger in harmonious form, but with his own flavor - That is he combines good DPS and good evasion with team utility all at once. The Monk's team utility should be slightly better than what the ranger has to offer. The Harmonious monk should do have better sustained DPS and evasion in short term fights, but the Ranger should pull ahead in long term fights as they learn their enemy.

The Harmonious and Drunken monks, with buffs and tweaks, could stand on their own - But the Harmonious runs into the problem of being too much like a different flavored Ranger, with Drunken being the only true path that seperates the Monk from other offensive fighters. And it's also very limiting for the Monk to just be an off tank, basically you're a warrior that does some more damage and is much weaker in defense.
Dragon by itself can never survive as a concept, even if they are made to outperform ranger damage, because it's pure DPS with no evasion or utility, and it's DPS is always going to be inferior to the other pure DPS class - The Rogue. So there's no reason for anyone seeking pure DPS to roll a Dragon monk, unless they just want a different style of damage dealing and are willing to suffer with inferior DPS.

This is not the only folley of the current monk form system.
A huge oversight of the system is that it cuts the amount of abilities any one monk gets to one third of what other classes get, resulting in less options and longer periods between upgrades.

Single forms cannot be made viable without extensive reworking of each form in addition to adding dozens of new filler abilities.

It's not only easier to open up the three forms to the monk at once, but it makes more sense conceptually because martial artists are all about having the flexibility to fill many roles from offense to defense to harmless disabling.


The downside of the monk is that he's forced to choose one thing at a time, but this could be offset if he
Letting the Monk switch between these on the fly wouldof


The Shaman is the jack of all trades. Melee damage, healing, nuke damage, buffs, survivability (in bear form), and utility.

The fact that the Shaman is the master of none of these doesn't stop him from being very powerful, a capable solo and team class.

No, they did not say the monk should be the king of DPS. They said the Monk should have the highest base DPS of the light fighters, but a Rogue properly played is the king of DPS, and the Ranger has superior sustained DPS in prolonged encounters as they learn their target.


I've explained why in detail several times already.


Wrong. The Shaman does not have three seperate lines of abilities tied to each spirit. The bear shaman is the same as a wolf shaman, except they have different pets and forms that augment certain traits.

None of that is true. The monk, as he is now, would not be the best DPS, the best utility, or the best off tanking (because real tanks are better).

What the monk would be is capable of doing top tier DPS, or capable of being the best off tank outside of a real tank, or capable of bringing a good mix of utility/damage/evasion to the table.

Basically what the monk already is, except you can switch roles every 5-10 minutes - So what you get for being good at no one task is being able to switch between being very good at one of three things.

This solves two fundamental problems the monk currently has:
1. Lack of abilities through forced division of the class into three subtypes.
2. Even after specializing with one subtype you're inferior to other specialists.

I didn't say that - The devs did. And I agree with thier placement of monk damage.

The Rogue doesn't always have the luxury of setting up a stealthed backstab, if the mob aggros on him or he gets jumped - So that's a factor in their DPS.

They don't do as much DPS as fists.
They don't crit as often.

I have tried to like them, but always end up switching back to fists. The double damage on crits just isn't worth it.

I know you're frustrated at being incapable of arguing effectively on behalf of why you don't think this is a good idea, but that's because you haven't really thought out your position much and hit a roadblock whenever you try to refute my points or come up with some points of your own.
Sit down and do some real thinking on what is posted, instead of just having reactionary negativity towards any suggestion of significant change.

When all you can do in response to reasoned debate is to name call and blanket dismiss it with comments like "well, nobody really wants this anyway so just shut up", then that's a sure sign that your position is incredibly weak and you need to reanalyze why you hold that position in the first place, if you are totally incapable of supporting it. A good chance you founded your position on erronous assumptions, or emotion, instead of a foundation of reason and logic.
 

Issue: Tiger stance should have it's endurance penalty reduced if the Monk's base chance to crit is not going to be increased. Because the 50% endurance cost was balanced around a time when monks could get 15% or 20% crit increase just from their weapons, that when stacked with their dexterity bonus and Tiger stance would put their crit chance on par with their increased endurance cost - Thus you might actually come out ahead in terms of DPS efficiency, or at least on par with your new endurance cost.

With monk weapons being nerfed to 5% each, the endurance penalty should be reduced to 40% at least, but I think 35% would be best.

The harmonious Monk embodies the generalization concept in that he brings good DPS, good evasion, and good utility to the table all at once - Yet he is far away from being the best in any of it.

Dragon monks, in contrast, are less useful because even after they get poor evasion and utility they still aren't going to out DPS classes like the Ranger, Rogue, or Sorcerer. So it just doesn't make much sense to specialize in one area if you aren't going to be near the best at it, as you would have been better off just playing one of the classes that does specialize in DPS.

The only way Dragon could be made really useful for the Monk is if a Harmonious monk decides that for this particular situation or group he needs more DPS, so he can change up for that fight without forcing himself to always run around in pure DPS mode with DPS that is inferior to other specialist classes.

On another note, I find it ironic that the Harmonious Monk represents everything some of you seem to hate - Flexibility and the capability to fill many roles - Yet it happens to be the Monk's most popular and powerful form. Flexibility is a utility and strength in itself, not a handicap.

Think of it this way:
If you have a choice between:
a) Being 90% effective at one role, and 30% effective at two other roles.
b) being 80% effective at one role, and 75% effective at two other roles.
The power of flexibility becomes apparent.
If you really really want to be good at one thing you can do that, but flexible classes that do well in all areas are very powerful in their own way.
Think of it in terms of a warrior versus paladin or dreadknight - The later two aren't hurt by their lack of specialization, but in fact are enhanced by it and arguably even better than the specialist warrior.

The fact is you'll never be the best off tank in drunken, never the best DPSer in dragon, and never the best team utility in Harmonious.
The key to the monk and his forms is that he melds various things together to be pretty good at several things, but never the best at any of them - And that's not going to change.