Barely out damage a DK?  Are you serious?  I play with a DK all the time, and trust me it is not even close.  Both of us are geared well.  Ok 3-4k once every 5 minutes?  So?  Thousand fists chain does on average 10-12K every minute easy, and that is without crit.  If I crit, my chain is probably around 20K on average.  And legendary crits are about 16-20K per hit.  Yes, DK will win in PVP.  But not because they outdamage us.  Again, I am lvl42 so maybe things are different at lower levels.

As for Bard, we certainly do more damage than bard as well.  Do they have more utility?  Of course, and they should.

As for the changes, I like the fact my debuffs were made to last longer.  I like the fact that iron hand is now 5m.  I like that thousand fists has been reduced to 1 min reuse, and the same with North Wind line.  Secret of Celerity reuse time was reduced to 15 min.  All of these are great changes.  I believe that reducing the reuse time on thousand fists definitely provided a significant increase to my DPS.

Maybe this is just me, but I think one of the problems is the scaling of DPS.  I feel my DPS has gotten stronger and stronger in comparison as I have leveled.  I guess I am one of the few monks that don't think we are broken.  Trust me, we far and away out DPS a defensive fighter.  We out dps a bard as well.  Although the DPS a bard brings to a group when considering songs is greater than ours, and it should be.  Do we out dps a ranger or rogue?  Probably not.  But I don't think the gap is as much as people like to make it to be.  I do think the monk needs more work.  We do need more DPS in order to put us where we should be.  But we are not unplayable.  Not by any means.  Monk is not a class you play to solo.  But we certainly can solo 2 dot and 3 dot mobs.  Can we solo as well as a ranger?  No way. 

Again, we are not unplayable.  We do have some issues, but so does every other class.  We do need more DPS.  But we need other things as well.  I like the direction that things are moving though.

well put Gatsuh, that is what they are supposed to be.  And all of their focus lacks any pop.  No evasion for drunken, sucky aoe for dragon, and 16 sec debuff for Harmonious.  I am harmonious, and like the debuffs available.  However 2 minute refresh on some is ridiculous when they only last 20sec.  Some are counter attacks that are virtually useless in a group.  Eagle claw and deadly adder hand are nice but they last short amount of time.  With the new changes to their duration they will be much better.  Of course so many classes can reduce mitigation.

It really disturbs me to see monks posting here that Harmonious monks need their stance nerfed.  Give me a break.  Do you really think that Tiger stance is better than the new Dragon offensive stance?  Come on.  I would rather my offensive stance gave me a mitigation penalty than an endurance penalty any day.  The description of Dragon is that it is a hard style that is focused on AoE attacks, not that it is king of dps.  I understand that your AoE attacks suck at the moment and I seriously hope that sigil fixes that issue, but stop calling for a nerf of Harmonious monks.  Harmonious is a softer style that focuses on debuffs, not AoE.  NO where does it say and whose dps shall be subpar to the uber dragon monk.  And for the record, most of the uber debuffs we get can't be used unless we get attacked.  and the ones we can use are on 2 minute timers, or last for 16 seconds and take a boat load of endurance especially in tiger stance.  I, just like you, still can't solo 3 dots either.  You act like we run around in Tiger stance killing 4 and 5 dot mobs without flinching.  Focus on your own style.

why the hell do you want to nerf harmonious?  After the recent upgrade to storm dragon, you can't tell me you think tiger stance is too uber.  I would rather have +20% damage, +5% crit, and chance to proc than a flat +25% crit chance and +30% endurance.  Not to mention , I would rather have mitigation penalty than endurance cost.  Deadly adder hand is great debuff but its endurance cost is through the roof.  And drunken monk was never supposed to be on par DPS wise with Harmonious.  They were always supposed to have the least dps out of the 3 styles.  Why does everyone wanna nerf harmonious?  Ridiculous

What you don't like having energy on your weapons!!!!  I was so happy to see my weapon from Darguns had energy on it because it will be so useful to me.  Energy > Dex or Str for sure!!  YIPPEEE!

Hmm...I am duo equal level 4 DOT mobs with a disciple at lvl 39 and seem to be doing just fine, and that is in tiger stance without a windblade.  Of course that is using Reed in the Wind II.  Still not as good as mitigation as a tank for sure, and we shouldn't be able to either.  But we do just fine.  I would love our defensive stances to get a boost thought for harmonious and drunken to make them worth using.  But again, it is not all doom and gloom.

Maybe since I am an orc monk with high strength and also Harmonious I don't have a lot of the same issues as people posting here, but I don't think the monk is in as bad a shape as people are saying.  We definitely have issues and our dps needs upgrading but we are not unplayable and I would not call my DPS abysmal.  I do believe there is an itemization problem though.  I think there needs to be more weapons and gear put in game that helps a monk.  Energy users can get gear that improves their energy.  Monks don't get any gear that improves their jin or their endurance. 

Tiger stance being over-powered is not why harmonious stays in it all the time.  I don't think it is over-powered at all.  We stay in tiger stance because the other stances just plain suck.  Remember that increased crit-rate from tiger brings a 50% endurance penalty as well.    Certainly tiger is over-powered compared to the other stances but that is because those are all broke.  If you think tiger stance is over-powered then I am sure you think the ranger crit buff is over-powered as well right?  Or the fact that a ranger with a bow can stand around all day and kill named mobs their own level solo?  If tiger stance is over-powered why can't I kill a 3-dot same level as myself?  Don't say it is my weapons because I have dual 35 DPS claws at lvl38.  If tiger was over-powered I should be able to chew through 3-dot 38 mobs with very little downtime.

Great post Leishu. I am a 36 harmonious monk.   I agree with much of what you have said.  However, I do not agree that Tiger stance is over-powering.  The 50% endurance penalty is substantial and should decrease slightly with levels.  Maybe down to 40% or so at lvl50.  I would like to see some added use out of harmonious stance as right now it is useful only out of battle really.  I like the idea of it giving extra jin on jin based attacks, and maybe reducing jin needed for those requiring jin.  That would make this stance useful.  I never use crane stance.  Maybe it is useful in certain situations, but even when solo I don't use it.

I do not agree on the durations of the secrets and iron hand.  I do believe the duration should be increased or they should instantly re-up if the jin is available.  I do not like having to push the iron hand button every 60 second.  I think a 5 minute buff time would be better, or at the end of 60 second it is automatically re-applied for 2 jin if the jin exists.  I think the secrets line would be too powerful if you could apply it for 30 min for 4 jin.  Jin is supposed to be something where the monk gains power the more he fights.  Thus being able to have iron hand and secrets up while chilling out for 20 minute does not make sense.  I think 20 sec is too short.  Perhaps a longer duration of maybe 2 min for maybe 8 jin would be better.  Maybe they should make it scale with levels.  So as you level the cost in jin increases but the duration increases as well. 

OVerall I am happy with harmonious monk but wish there were not so many skills and stances that I never use.  The auto-crit ability is fairly useless in my mind especially since I crit a lot in tiger stance.  Perhaps if it was an auto-crit that allowed access to all finisher regardless of cooldown state it would then have a use.   That would allow us to open boundless fist twice in a row every 5 min or so.  Secret of Celerity is very nice, but that long a cool down makes you never want to use it when it is up.  It is almost like a novelty that is cool to use once in a while.  Reducing the cool down on this would make it more usable.

The debuffs are nice, but I agree the duration is too short.  I never use Deadly Adder because the endurance cost is too great for the 16 sec debuff.  If these increased in duration as you level it would make them much more usable.  Perhaps to 32 sec around lvl35 or so, and then 48 sec around lvl 50.

where is ruin of vol tunei? what lvl range?  What lvl range is river palace?

Gear will help you over come your stat differences.  It is not a matter of whether you have better gear than the next guy, it is a matter of what gear you choose.  Does your gear have more str than dex, or maybe more con.  I myself went with Orc.  Their racial bonus is pretty good as it gives me hp back for every hit for like 7 seconds or something.  And being harmonious, I am bound to crit within 7 seconds and can generally refill my entire hp bar.  Plus I get 6 str per level.  So I get more str than kojani, but less dex.  It is all a matter of play style and your likings.  Play what you like.

I have nothing against the drunken monk being the best off-tanker.  Your point was coming across as all monks should strive to have the niche of off-tanking.

As for harmonious, I don't agree with what people are saying.  Harmonious monks do a lot of damage, but they do it differently than a Dragon Monk.  The harmonious monk uses their debuffs such as Eagle Claw to increase their damage.  With that being said, if the dragon monk and harmonious monk were in the same group the dragon should do more dps than harmonious because he would be using the same debuffs that the harmonious does.  Dragon monk should excel at AOE attacks, and should have the best AOE attacks of all melee.  I know that is not the case right now, but it should be.  No monk's dps will ever be as high as a ranger who has studied his target.  And really should not be either.  And as far as utility is concerned, what utility do you think a harmonious monk really brings to a group over a dragon?  Eagle's claw and deadly adder hand?  Oh yeah, SWEET!  NOT!

Again, you have proved my point.  Lets say the Berserker starts off a battle with 20% health so that he can sustain high dps.  With his high dps he will instantly draw aggro and die.  Or he will have to wait longer for the tank to get aggro, and then attack.  Yes the berserker will have higher potential DPS of a monk, but will die often.  In a lot of situations a monk who has low risk of dying with solid DPS will be better.  Personnally I do not want to be an off-tank.  Off tank is of no use in this game.  Drunken monk can be a replacement tank when no tank is available.  It gives people options when making groups.  I would rather nerve strike than off-tank.  Give me a higher base DPS, longer lasting debuffs, and the ability to trigger my debuffs without needing a counter attack and I will be quite happy and quite useful.

Maybe I am wrong but sustained = consistent?  A ranger's damage is not consistent/sustained.  HIs damage output is based on how long he has been fighting a single target.  A rogue is not sustained dps either.  Everytime he breaks stealth, the damage goes down and he has to build back up.  A berserker's damage is based on how close he is to death.  As he gets healed his DPS goes down.   A monk will have the highest sustained DPS.  He will not have the highest potential DPS numbers.

And I do agree that DPS is not our only issue.  But it is a major one.