they plan on balancing this game???

Hopefully you do not have to be a crafter.  These are outfitter recipes basically right?  So if crafting was required, then it would probably require an outfitter, and i doubt even the idiots in charge are moronic enough to make it a requirement to be a high lvl outfitter to complete this armor quest, but i wouldn't be suprised......

We're all beating a dead horse here.

Most of the ideas (i say most a few are new to me) have been said already and have been brought up for the past 3-5 months now.  Face it guys, i love martial arts and high damage as much as the next guy, but it's not happening.  It won't happen as long as that dumb ass David Gilbertson is still in charge.  at the moment there are NO plans for class revamps on the schedule at this time.  I know you guys hope Sony will fix this game, but David Gilbertson is STILL basically the guy in charge, calling the shots.  And he's an idiot.  Watch this video to see what the upcoming plans for VG are, Class balancing is not one of them.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?type=wmv&id=19787

EXACTLY Ciro.  The balancing in VG is the biggest joke of the year.  Even if what the above mentioned about a cleric DPSing as well as a ranger, (which i still find hard to believe since rangers have ridiculously overpowered DPS to begin with), that fact that he does damage even close to that of a DEFENSIVE fighter is stupid.  Healers should be able to do SOME dps, but it should not even pass defensive tanks, led alone begin to be anywhere NEAR a real DPS class.  It is total BS.  Now i love the cleric, the way he plays and all, but it is not fair to people (especially monks) who choose to play other classes which are in fact, obsolete, even if these so called WAR-clerics dps abilities are exaggerated. 

So if i am to believe this 49 cleric, he can Tank (because he can heal well / because he can DPS as well as a ranger to hold aggro)  he can DPS as well as the best DPS class in the game (which i seriously doubt, even with the stupidity of the class balancers working on VG), AND he has the best buffs in the game and is the best healer in the game.  So Ciro, its like lvling up 3 classes in one if what the 49 cleric says is true.  In this game DPS can also = taunting, but healing pulls aggro too, so if he just tries to heal + DPS he can probably hold aggro and he wears plate and heals (even if it isn't as good in his DPS stance its still heals) which means he can tank basically.  So he can heal/DPS/tank.  All he needs is a PSI/Bard for CC? 

Does anyone else see the total BS this game is becoming?  It's ridiculously pathetic.  And the Rtard in charge (David Gilbertson) says it will take several more months just to polish and fix bugs!
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?type=wmv&id=19787

Look at the crap in the video that ISN'T IN GAME.  BS! (Riding dragon, riding roc, etc)
Bug fixing and polish for A FEW MORE MONTHS?!?!?!?! We are supposed to wait for more polish and fixes for MONTHS?
Fellowships won't be around for a few more weeks?  (3 or 4)
Raids not in for a COUPLE MONTHS.
We are supposed to pay for this crappy half game for a few more months before it even begins to resemble the reason we all bought it? 
where the HELL are helmets?!

you can tell youself you're still ahving fun playing this game, (i am having fun playing with my friends) but this game has more potential than any other MMO and the stupidity of the people in charge have completely destroyed all of it and all of its potential and it just disgusts me to no end and the only reason i play and am involved is because there is no other MMO worth playing right now and my friends are playing this one and i don't have the cash to switch over to anything else anyway. 

Aside from being ridiculously high melee DPS (which they are not and should be)

Monks should be the 4th best tank in the game, period.  Obviously healers shouldn't be able to hold aggro, because with their overpowered healing abilities they can keep themselves alive for a very long time, and if they could hold aggro well enough they would make the tanking classes completely obsolete.  The other DPS classes have quite a substantial list of things they can do better than the monk, (DPS being one of them) therefore the monk should bridge this gap of lack of utility with tanking ability. 

right now, monks are a waste of space.  Basically they are obsolete, with subpar damage, and even rangers tank better, so subpar defensive ability also, and next to no utility.  If they were removed from the game it would be like putting the lame horse out of its misery.  Since no one on the dev side seems capable of figuring out a fair and decent balance for them with the other classes (despite the hours and hours of effort put forth by this community and by Quinn) they might as well get rid of the monk class.

He's not doing ranger damage.  There is no way.  My friend is a lvl 24 ranger and he is hitting for an average of 2k x 5 with his ranger AT LVL 24!  He has had his wind song or whatever combo hit for up to 4200 damage x 6 at lvl 24.  thats damage my lvl 43 monk doesn't even glimpse regularly.  I can't imagine what a 43 ranger does damage wise.  There is no way a cleric is doing equivalent damage to a ranger, unless he's comparing his cleric to the stupidest most ignorant MMO player to ever roll a ranger. 

Not to mention my cleric at 24 could solo lvl 26 4 dots.  I did it several times at RoTK.  Clearly the cleric who posted whatever does not have a full comprehension  of his class nor the abilities of other classes.

So by now i'm sure you've all heard that SoE is/has taken over officially.

This means overpowered classes like the ranger that were favored by Brad and co. might be getting the shaft now and some REAL class balancing might kick in in the next few weeks.  I think you guys should keep that in mind when you are starting your suggestions and also realize that some of the new people might have ideas for classes that, you know, make sense.   Perhaps we'll even get someone working on Vanguard that actually knows what the word "balance" means.  I'm not proposing nerfs for anyone, because the power classes feel powerful and thats a good thing.  The weaker classes should be made so they also feel powerful.  Rangers walk through 2 and 3 dots like cake, while monks struggle to defeat most 3 dots.

Let me again put this thought out there that i have argued for so long.

Monk damage SHOULD be > ranger damage.

In order from most to least damage light fighters
Rogue>Monk>Ranger>Bard.

Here is why I feel that way....
Rangers have ranged damage, buffs for others and themselves, debuffs (such as snares, 2 roots i believe) invis, etc.

The monk right now, has pure DPS and a little run speed.  The drunken style can hold aggro and tank ok (but who can't tank with a cleric healing, bah).  My point is the monk sacrifices utility, buffs and debuffs and gets nothing in return.  The ranger outdamages the monk damage style and that simply should not be. 

The bard has the greatest utility (clearly) and therefore should have the least straight up DPS.  The rogue actually has more utility than the monk, but rogues are pretty weak, can't tank at all or hold aggro, and if they lose invis they lose their DPS, so they should have highest DPS since its so situational.  Monk has less utility than ranger so he should have more DPS potential. 

I don't see any valid arguments on why the ranger should have so much more DPS than us.  There simply are none.  The only reason they do is simply because dummies running Sigil favored the ranger and they had like 1 person doing class balancing?  If you somehow have the misconception the ranger should have more DPS than the monk, even over time, realize you have been brainwashed by the Rtards at Sigil to think that, because i find it hard to believe anyone with any sense thinks its fair and balanced to put all the eggs in one basket to make that class better than every other at everything. 

Hopefully SoE will come in and set this game right.

So basically you were enjoying playing a drunken monk tank, and you could hold aggro well, even though your class needed some work.

Then Sigil stepped in to "fix" some stuff and make it better for you

Now you are less effective than you were before, another step backwards?

I'm reminded of a great paula abdul song....

"two steps forward, take two steps back"

Probably about as many changes as there were when he was here.........

Yeah i have a monk wish list too.   I've had it for about 3 or 4 months now.............

Maybe your "whish" list is appropriate because thats the sound thats made when the devs pass right over us every patch.

Lol, everyone keeps saying we are not broken or unplayabable.....

I don't think anyone has posted here we are broken and unplayable, so there is no need for people to keep saying it over and over, hehe.

You like the direction that things are moving?  Riftway stones?  Gear binds on equip?  We don't get any REAL fixes since beta?  No talk about when we will get fixes?  Still I CTD more and more after this last patch?  The fixes monks do get are half the time nerfs (RiTW anyone) or they are rehashes of old patches, or they are just words that say some issue is fixed when it isn't.  This is not the direction I want to see VG move in.  When SoE takes over it probably wont get any better either.

I'm not sure if we actually outDPS bards.  I play on a pvp server with a cleric and i'm more worried about bards than i am monks (whom i rarely see).  Hell, i'd attack a lvl 40 monk at lvl 26 and i woudln't be terribly worried =P. 

You may be able to outDPS a DK, barely.  They have harm touch spells every 5 minutes that hit ridiculously hard.  at 46 its base damage is 3k, which means it probably hits aroudn 4k+ straight up, not to mention the damage they will do with a 2hander and their dots and AOE heals.  You may be able to out damage one, but he could drop you in one shot........  Not to mention you would never touch a DK in a duel (a good one that is). 

Anyway, my whole argument is that either all classes should be overpowered, or none of them should be.  However, I will not stand here and allow people to argue the monk is ok where he is because he is literally the weakest class int he game and that is not fair.  An even lvl monk should be able to kill an even lvl cleric.  Monk DPS should be overwhelming and there should be no coming back if he takes you by surprise.  We may not be "broken", but we sure need to be fixed   

part 1:  Yes, because vanguard doesn't feel anything like EQ2, pre 4/25 patch that is.  He may have helped implement someone elses ideas, but this is not the same.  These are his ideas that he is trying to implement, not someone elses ideas he is collaborating on.
part 2:  Somewhat, Luclin wasn't the worst expansion of EQ like i said, but it was the beginning of its downfall IMO.
part 3:  I thought i made it clear that if SoE was involved in the development of the original EQ, kunark and Velious, that they did a good job and they were good ideas.  However, i'm pretty sure they published it, because Verant was a part of 989 Stuidios, which was owned by SoE (i think, correct me if i'm wrong) which means to me that aside from just some PR work they didn't really touch the first three.  Again, if they did do it, Kudos to them, and what happened to make them turn to crap now?

Monk Vs. Necro
Perhaps you are right in that it is not a valid comparison.  however both are DPS classes, both have FD (necros is a 10 second timer or so, not to mention that if a monk is low on health and a mob is aggroed on him he has to move and FD real fast, which gives the mob a chance to get a hit in, not so with the Necro FD.  It's a spell that can be cast while already FDed.  Not to mention necros can drop all their dots and send in the pet and stay FDed for the majority of the fight, never getting aggro.).  Keep in mind the necro can keep the abom healed also, so the abom has heals coming in.  Monks have one heal every 5 minutes.  Abom also does some pretty nice damage with the right grafts.  Also, i believe monks at some point in EQ1 were very very powerful. 
Part of my rant is this, many classes seem very powerful.  This is not necessarily a bad thing.  All of the classes should feel powerful in their own ways.  Clerics are tough, they can last long, necros deal great damage and can adapt to various situations.  Dks are tough and at higher lvls with good gear and an intelligent player can solo anything they can hit.  I've seen them do it.  Perhaps they are overpowered, but ALL classes should feel powerful.  Monks do not feel powerful.  They don't necessarily need to be the most powerful class, but they should give the player at the LEAST the illusion of being powerful.  I love had sigil has made classes like the cleric, necro and DK give players a sense of power, and i believe all players should have the right to feel that way about their class.

In regards to this game being more stable than AO....
Well i'd hope so, its six+ years later since the release of the first MMO generation.  This is a third gen MMO and if people aren't learning how to release these better....... well then thats just sad. 

SOE has taken over, lol.  As i've posted before (maybe it was at silky venom) if you don't think they are already calling the shots for Sigil you are just kidding yourself. 

I agree Soulfyst the game should be more difficult.  Or maybe not more difficult, but a little slower?  Either one perhaps, the harder the game the longer to lvl i suppose.  SOE will not make this game harder.  They are all about user friendly (see SWG, EQ2). 

When SoE does officially own Sigil....
I doubt they will put the money in needed to fix this game to put it where it should be.  Here's my logic:
VG will probably not attract people from the other games they are playing because right now it has a terrible reputation.  When people think of VG now i daresay most think buggy and unfinished.  Who would leave their current MMOs that are polished and functional and more balanced?  The only people who may give it a shot are the people on the station pass who can play it basically for free.  So how does this make SOE money?  It won't because they are already getting money from the station pass, so if they put in money to fix VG (and it would probably take a lot) to where it should be they are still not seeing an increase in income b/c few people will leave their current MMOs unless somehow, some way VG's rep turns into pure gold and its like the best MMO on the market.  No, i don't see SoE spending enough money to put VG on the awesomet MMO list where it should be.  I wish it were different, but that's my prediction based on what i know about businesses and economics.  If I were CEO of SoE, i'd buy sigil, maybe spend some of the account money from it to fix a few bugs, but i'd leave it, the same way i left MxO and SWG.  *shrug*

According to your story, this caster sucks.  Plain and simple.  It may depend on what type of caster he is but my necro could easily kite around 3 3 dots of equal to +2 lvls without breaking much of a sweat and come out on top without getting touched.  If my mana is low i use vile ritual on each corpse and its back to full.  Same deal with the druid, except they nerfed taproot so now he isn't as capable as the necro.

On our fear of dying...
If we can solo the red 2 dot, any class can solo the red 2 dot (except maybe a rogue).  Our fear of dying is equal to most other classes ability of succeding.  We may not die, but we will not necessarily win.  Most other classes such as the necro, fear dying even less than we do because not only can they FD, they can also kill virtually anything.  Clerics can easily solo multiple mobs (and multiple players on PVP servers for that matter).  Virtually every class has an advantage over us in some way.  The only think monks have over MOST other classes (excluding necros and disciples) is FD.  That's it.  Only FD.  That's the only thing keeping our class from being removed from the game because unless we had FD we would be pointless.  In fact Necros DO make us pointless. They can FD, their pet can tank better, and they deal much more damage.  They can even buff others.  They can crowd control better too.  I assure you I have tested just about every class thoroughly with the exception of heavy fightesr to see how they compare to monks.  I have a 25 druid, 27 necro, 26 cleric, 19 rakurr shaman (24 hayatet shaman in beta) and a 43 monk.  I have experimented with the bard, rogue, sorceror, disicple, ranger all to lvls between 10-17, and i've recently been experimenting with the Psi.

I can assure you many other classes are playing perfectly, if not overpowered.  I have no problems with the Cleric or the Necro exactly where they are, except for maybe some graphical tweeks.  DK i haven't played personally but my best friend plays one and he loves it more than his paladin.  My other best friend has a 44 warrior and he has few complaints also.  Druids are basically fine, they do many things well.  Sorcs are pretty good too.  Shamans are very tough like most other healers (my brother plays a blood mage and loves it).  Psi's seem to be fairly happy with their class also.  Rangers i rarely hear complain, and their damage is doing fine.  Bards have so much utiltiy they are too busy having fun to complain.  Honestly the only classes i hear who are consistently complaining are monks and rogues.  These 2 classes need some help (but rogues have extra utility now so monks should be fixed first).   

The monk plays just fine in a group.  Fine, but not spectacular.  This is the only time i don't feel obviously pathetic compared to other classes.  Monks still need lots of attention, or at least enough attention for the devs to realize his DPS should be a LOT higher for all of the other things he sacrifices.

P.S.  It IS getting harder to find groups.  If grouping were easier my complaints about monks would shrink sizeably (i mean so what if he's gimper than others, no one really notices in a group), but things are not getting better.  Therefore my obligation to rant increases.  I'm not really ranting either, im just pointing out that playing to a classes strengths displays the obvious power of that class.  There are no strengths to the monk compared to other classes, therefore he feels weaker.  (Thanks for nerfing RiTW devs)

Exactly.

And now SoE will take over.  I'm not sure if i agree with you that SoE is "good" at keeping MMOs successful or whatever.  MxO sucks, but it could have sucked from the start but either way SoE didn't help it stop sucking.  SwG started well, it was unique and fun, SoE got it (and whether its SoE's fault or LA fault, or a combo of both) SoE had say in where the game went, and it went to hell.  EQ2 was developed and published by SoE i believe, and i think the world of EQ2 is lame, lacking creativity in the implementation.  I think a lot of decisions made about some of the instances (such as no drop class specific armor dropping in an instance than can be done like once a day dropping for a group that doesn't have the class) is a good indicator of the stupidity of the people who developed that game.  I am no developer, but never would it EVER cross my mind that this implementation could even barely border on being a logical way to pass out loot.  EVER.  Look what's happening to Vanguard now, crafted items now bind on equip, doesn't that sound like how in EQ2 you have to attune the item to you before you can get it's benefits? There are no bells in VG but there are rift stones now.   Systems like these are STUPID AS HELL and it looks like SOE  already has complete control over VG.  If you don't think SoE is already calling the shots for VG after this last patch you are fooling yourself.  I for one also disliked the changes made to EQ1 when SoE took over.  Luclin was the beginning of the end for me with EQ1.  I tried to enjoy it, and i did somewhat, but it no longer felt like Everquest after Luclin.  And if SoE was in charge of Velious and Kunark (im not sure) then they did a good job there, but Luclin and beyond was a downhill tumble and could possibly be the start of where SoE's ideas began to dry out.

Therefore, IMO, 100% of the games that SOE has purchased/developed turned into the SUCK and i can't possibly see how VG won't follow the same path to utter damnation.  I will wait of course, and give SoE a chance to redeem themselves after all of the other pathetic things they have done (though they don't deserve the chance, but Sigil does), but I seriously doubt anything good will come of this. 

I really really really wanted Vanguard to succeed according to Brad's vision of the game.  It was a fantastic dream shared by myself and many others in the community, and the disappointment is clear across many other gamers.  However, it is time to move on and look for the next game on the horizon and stop kidding ourselves to think that things will so drastically improve that this game will be worth playing over the next generation of MMOs coming out this year.

www.warhammeronline.com

that is all...........