I just hop in and out of it every 5 minutes or so to make sure it hasn't dropped, but have never really done any testing to see if the damage buff is active, aside from what I've seen, and crits spike so much it's difficult.

If it's anything like Dragon Stance, it's borked. Hopefully to be fixed.

I disagree.

The problem with our specialization is that it's not specialized enough. I love the idea of chosing a stance at level 15, I also like the idea that it's not permanent.

The main problem with allowing a monk to switch between all three stances on the fly is that if they are great at doing any of the three they are overpowered, but if they are subpar at doing any of the three they are underpowered. Noone wants a class that can only halfass a task - They'll pick up a class that can carry it through. Pulling? Bard. CC? Psi. DPS? Long List - They can all do it better, and we'd be stuck LFG shouting 'Level 35 Monk LFG, can FD!'

Speaking directly from expierence as a monk and bruiser in EQ2 if you want a class that can DPS well, tank well, and have decent utility on the side, it doesn't work. You either become a worthless hybrid or step on the toes of people who's job you can do plus more.

Plus, as you mentioned before, rangers can already switch between the stances - awesome, we turn ourselves into a ranger without a bow.

The good news is, and I know what I'm about to suggest should go into the wishlist thread, is that we already have the mechanics in the game right now, and it would become just a matter of numbers and minor mechanical switches to allow us to do what you suggest. Let me explain:

Consider a spectrum of DPS VS Utility, in our case DPS vs Offtankability, which for the sake of display we'll include the typical daily activities of a pulling monk.

DPS - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Balance  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Offtanking

Dragon - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Harm - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Drunk

Dragon Monks are the epitome of DPS. They forfeit any type of utility and offtankability to do a large amount of damage. This is, of course, through Directs, AEs, and DoTs.

Drunken monks strive to keep their party alive, via intercepts, blocks, offtanking, and generally doing things to bolster a tank and control a large amount of adds that the CC might have a problem doing.  They have the least amount of DPS on the monk scale.

Harmonious monks are the inbetween. Neither high DPS nor amazing Offtanks, but rather a lesser combination of the two plus debuffing that strives to pull mobs with minor CC while aiding the higher DPS in the groups to kill faster and more effeciently.

The beauty of this is, it's already possible in the game, at least mechanically. We have 3 monk specs each with 3 monk spec stances. A bit more thought, a little number crunching, and you can make some people happy.

You mentioned that you would like to chain pull, offtank, and have a large sum of utility, in this case I would assume that means debuffs. Enter harmony.

Monks do not need an entire revamp. It would take too long, cost too many resources, and there are a large amount of ideas listed here, in this thread and others, that are much better. Besides, can you imagine how much tweaking and bug fixing an entire revamp would be? What would they do different? Make it so we have to use 5 abilities that each deal 100 to do 500 damage, instead of using two that do 250? The system we have right now just needs to be refined.

If you want the ability to switch between the 3 on the fly, play a ranger. Don't suggest that what we have now be changed into something so similiar, annihilating any sense of differentiation which we once had outside of a bow and swords.

~Thank you

I've read most the replies here and am seeing some fairly radical changes. Some are good, some not so much, I won't go into details. I'm also a dragon, so I may be a bit biased in that regard.

I like how the monk plays now, I just want to see what we have to be tweaked, rather than the class as a whole be revamped:

We don't need a lull - Instead we need FD to not tether mobs - Tethering was unintentional, and afaik it's being fixed.

We don't need an energy pool - We have a jin pool, we just need to do more with it.

We don't need hideous debuffs - Monks are damage, first and foremost. Harmonious being the only exception in regards to debuffing, and even then it shouldn't be the end all.

We don't need hideous buffs - See above. Jin surge should be made a bit more potent, maybe have it last a couple of attacks instead of one single. I'd say, what? 3 attacks that deal 200% damage while under the surge? Simple double damage, makes up for the Jin cost.

What we do need, however, is our finishers to not be reliant on crits - OR - higher crit chances:

We need a Jin burn ability - Ashen hand as it is right now is a perfect canidate. 50 x Jin. 15 Jin at 25, 750 damage base. 30 Jin at level 50, 1500 damage base. It takes some time to gain a lot of Jin, which acts as the cool, plus other abilities take Jin as well, and it decays. Meditate before a battle, slam ashen hand. Also makes Meditate useful.

We need endurance costs to be reduced - Simple. Endurance costs are too high. 6Dragon Strike takes 28 Endurance along with Feet of the Fire dragon. Boundless is 20, and the AEs are 34. Unless you intend to spam boundless, these soak up a lot of endurance. Halving the endurance cost may be a bit extreme, but 7 - 10 points lower across the board would help immensly.

We need % based damage, not Melee based damage - What's more damage? 400% Weapon damage Plus 450  - OR - 450 Plus melee damage? Not only is melee damage rather vague, but it's vastly inferior. Unless, of course, you have a melee weapon with 200 max damage.
We need our secrets to be useful - They do bad damage, rarely proc, and stop storm stance from proccing. Awesome. Make them hit harder, more often, stack with Storm, and Pow! Fixed. Celerity needs to last 30 - OR - 60 seconds. It's a great concept, but underpowered considering it takes 8 Jin, and by the time I can use an actual art, it's 2 seconds off the top, and the time between arts must eleminate half the tick time.

We need mend to be % Based - Simply put. When we are fully geared and have 5k HP+, 700 isn't a whole hell of a lot. Oh, and make the % respectable - 30%. None of this ow! I was just hit for 4500 by this collosal 6 dot Mob! Quick! Mend for 15% of my total health!

Our Aums are cool, other than that we really don't have much in the way of buffs, as it should be to be justified in line with DPS. We don't buff people - people buff us.

Right now I think our avoidance is kinda where it should be, somewhat low. Windblades being brought back up to 20/5% parry and Harm/Drunk stances being changed aswell would help.

- - Beyond here are for Dragon Monks - -

It's been said time and time and TIME AGAIN. Storm stance is weak, doesn't take Jin correctly. Dragon Stance is borked. Stone dragon stance is cool. 40% heat/cold absorb at 30 is a good idea, although the haste debuff hurts a lot.

This whole idea of counter attacks for dragons of any sort needs to be tossed outside the window. This is mainly Dragon Sweeps it's tail. In a typical group, that is, a Tank, healer, and DPS, how often does a ranger dodge? A rogue? A bard? I'm sure it's rare.. but even if they happen to steal aggro and dodge, WHY IN GOD'S NAME WOULD THEY LAUNCH A 10 METER STUNNING AE? And why would we?

Dragon Monks AEs need a fine tuning.

Some of these I understand are not Dragon specific, but it helps all of us and it's easier to stick them here.

Whirling Storm - Awesome, I love it. Epitome of an AE, the basic badass. 10 Meters, 300 damage, unlimited targets, stupid high rape your endurance cost: Any questions? If they drop the endurance cost, it would be amazing. Massive AE damage with a few endurance regen buffs, right up our alley.

Dragon Rakes its claws - It's identical to Whirling Storm, except it's conical. Ok, that's cool, I can use it at the right angel to hit mobs we are fighting and not aggro a torrent or break mez.. but why use it over Whirling in any other way? I think it should cost jin. One AE that owns using endurance, and one that owns which uses Jin. Always have an AE available.
I'd set the cost at about 4 to 5. Now if only AEs gave a jin for each target they hit...

Dragon Sweeps its tail - AE stun is bank. One minute recast tones it down, high endurance cost balances it. However! See the above comment regarding dodge counter attacks. Make it arbitrary and it's perfect.

Divine Typhoon/Divine Avalanche - These need to not take a crit to fire, considering how hard it is to crit a full AE in the first place. Up the damage to something respectable, and a 2 minute recast is easily justified.

I think that pretty much covers dragon issues. Overall, a few minor tweaks will make us amazing. Our damage needs to be high, or AE damage needs to be high, or avoidanace needs to be mediocre, and our group buffs nonexistent.

We need to be the masters of AE damage as a Dragon monk. Rogues can outdamage us in stealth, rangers can outdamage us in long fights, but when there is 3+ mobs on the field.. better duck and cover - Bombs be dropping.

Was anyone else expecting this exact answer?

Not to say I disagree with the OP, we still seem borked in terms of ability. Sure, you can play a class to 100% of it's ability, but you can't push it past it's mechanical limitations. We still need tweaking.

I may just be repeating what others have said, but the biggest issues I have with monks are:

1.)DPS above all. I think the basic agreement on these boards is that we lack the DPS to mean a thing. This is of course contradict to the logic that Utility is balanced with DPS, because we lack any sort of decent utility outside of FD.

The way I see it, which is just a pipe dream at this point, is:

Sorcercer = Dragon > All for AE(2+ mobs DPS);
Ranger > Monk > All for Single Target Mobs;

This is all contingent, of course, on the execution of Utility balanced with DPS, as in the more DPS you have, the less utility you should be granted, and vice versa.

Evac, Snare, Pets, Root, Heal, Charm, Mez, buffs, songs, debuffs are all vasty superior to the utility we get. Also, everything I have just mentioned in way of utility will keep a group alive - Not rez them after they have died.

We are a DPS class first and foremost. People won't pick us for pulling, anymore. Not for heals. Not for Mezzes. Not to tank. Not to debuff.

To DPS.

Just DPS - and the sky is the limit. Dragon monks should be able to annihilate groups of mobs, along with sorcerers. However, because of the large amount of AE power, they should lack some in the single target DPS area. Enter the ranger, various casters, etc. Monks, however, should still be near the top of the parse in most circumstances, simply because, we offer NOTHING ELSE. Jin surge? One attack. Teleport? Bugged so it only works if you are in  the range of the combat art. Ghetto mez? Only when out of combat.(Which, to be fair, can be attained by a simple FD, but still pales in the face of other mezzes.) FD? That leads me to my next point:

2.) Feign Death is bugged.

I don't mind mobs casting on me when it works and they are midcast. That's cool.
I don't mind when mobs sit on top of me for a couple of minutes. I have time.
I don't mind when I lag hard and run after I FD, getting back up again. That's another issue.
What I do mind, however, is when they don't break aggro, and I have to flop it 5 more times. 2  times because it failed repeatedly and 3 times to get it to reset properly.

It's a bug. It's obvious. It needs to be fixed.

3.) Jin pool:

I really like the Jin pool idea, myself. The problem is, it doesn't equate to an energy pool. There is just something about it, I can't put my finger on to add constructivly. Maybe if it didn't decay during combat, or the cap was higher. It just seems like at times I have a full pool which rarely gets used and other times I need some and have nothing. Then I have to sit and meditate, wait a year for a full pool, and continue on. Don't get me wrong, I love meditate, and I like the idea that we can Meditate to get jin up outside of combat.. but 5 combat arts later and it's depeted, along with our endurance pool?

Hey, how about this one - reduce the cost of endurance abilities, so we can spam those more and in turn get more jin...

4.) Stances:

Deplorable. I'm a dragon, and am always in storm stance. Dragon stance is broken, and stone dragon is worthless, even for what it's intended to be used for. If I could redo the stances.. I would do it like this(Note: I don't know the other two stance styles):

Storm Dragon: Same as it is now, up it's damage maybe. Make sure it procs on every hit, and remove the Jin cost, even though it doesn't work right now.

Dragon Stance: AE damage on every hit. When I look at the monks I see Dragons as the AE gods, Harmonious as the single target debuff/self sustaining single targeters, and drunken as the minor combination + minor tanking. A little bit of all three. This damage should be low, but only because it will amount to high AE damage when they're are a lot of targets. If you really wanted to go over the top, you can add a minor life tap to stick with it's health regen factor now..

Stone Dragon: This stance really interested me, because it sounded like a good idea if the target was nuking you with a ton of fire/cold.. but by doing no extra damage and hindering your attack speed  it simply wasn't worth it. Personally I would just remove the -20% haste, and leave the 30% reduction to heat/cold and a little dodge bonus.

Sure, I'm sure someone will drop by and say our ideas are overpowering the class.. but if the class is meant to be the top of the DPS - The sky is the limit. Within acceptable terms, of course.

I won't go into avoidance and offtanking, since that's both not what I want the monk class to end with, and I am not a drunken monk.

Level 19 monk: -

Friend of mine which has been playing for a while mentioned that Dragon monks were awesome AE DPS, so naturally I felt inclined to follow the path since I was a monk and a bruiser in EQ2 and craved the damage scene. The class was stupid gimped there, and I'm actually rather sad to see that it's followed, although I have higher hopes that we will get love faster than anything else in the past - Hopefully.

My biggest concern is, as stated previous by others in various ways, is DPS and the lack thereof. I here two ranger guildies always talk about their 500 - 1000 damage bow shots and ability to just flatout own mobs. Now, I'm not a ranger, and don't know the combat system 150% in and out, but that blows away my 100 damage AE + 40 Dragon proc which consumes half my endurance and only rewards 1Jin. Dragon stances, I might add, are appearantly bugged. Someone mentioned before that the HP regen is broken; I know from experience that the Stone stance is utter garbage; Storm dragon stance pops out everytime I Cross a zone/Randomly, Doesn't consume the Jin it advertises(Thank god), and is stupid low damage.

As far as I have seen, I have retarded utility. A hate lower for defensive target, a taunt, and Jin Surge are the only three things I can think of right now that effect others than myself - And that's regardless of usefulness, of which there is none. I would give all three up in a heartbeat for an increase in DPS or something. FD is cool, but always fails when I need it. I'm constantly out of Jin, and it's to  the point with endurance that I can actually time the tick so well that the abilites don't have a chance to hightlight before the abilitiy fires - and that's a skill developed soley because I am always staring at the thing waiting for the tick.

 I've experimented with abilites and weakness exploits, ways to increase Jin, and various other ways to end the fight with Jin remaining. I understand that Jin was meant to be spent quickly, but damn.. it goes fast. Starting a fight out at 0 is harsh, and also nullifies the usefulness of meditate. I pretty much meditate now just to get Aum abilites, which if that's the intention is pretty lame. Jin deterioration hurts, since I have to wait between pulls for HP/Endurance because HP stance is bugged, but I can live with that in a group setting. So far the best art spam I found was boundless fist/crecent kick spam until 4 Jin, dropping an Ashen hand bomb,  maybe a little flying kick action, and repeating as needed. That's a nice way to use 10+ abilities. Beyond all I have said here, however, I can still do decent damage. Not as a much as a Bard whose buffs are amazing, and not as much as a ranger with twice my utility... heh... decent damage.

As it stands right now I am still enjoying the game a lot. I still have high hopes that this won't be another anti-monk game. As it stands at the exact moment, I hope it's all in my head, monks get better after 30, or I am necroing this thread and monks are amazic.

At least I can still brag about my aum abilties not costing silver...

What a day.