Hey Ryo!

I just got some hot info from where Sigil got their inspiration for our Leaping/Soaring Dragon skill.
You can also notice the subtle inspiration the got concerning our DPS as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ1N3q4Vgkg&mode=related&search=

Ryoku,
Why should we care if Rangers can consistently do 6k crits?
If thats their damage we should be glad for them as we are not fighting against them we are fighting with them.
It does show that our DPS is not were it should be given all the discussions on the boards till current, but trying to bring down our Ranger brothers does us no good either.
If I'm in a party with a Ranger against a heavy boss mob I want him to be pulling 6k crits, that helps the group achieve its goal which is dead boss.

I think our concern is that compared to another light fighter, lets say a "Ranger", we are nothing more then an annoying DOT taking up a party slot, with the occasional convienance of providing wipe prevention if our FD doesn't get resisted or we don't get 2 shotted.

I would rather use other classes as a litmus scale of where we are at but not target the nerf bat at them.
I don't want anybody to be nerfed and if we monks are to be considered the base for everyones dps we can all just kiss those heroic and legendary boss lewts "Goodby!".

Thats because they found out that their bottle of White Lightning was being replaced with a 2c bottle of Ripple! 

Nice write up "E".

I can confirm at lvl 23 Dragon stylist I experience the same thing against 2dot level mobs so it looks like they did an excellent job of scaling our dps to endgame.

Maybe we can get some lvl 30 and low 40s to report what they are experiencing.

And I agree with Ryo - more communication from Sigil concerning where we are at goes along way.  QTM is doing a fine job but it would be nice to get some developer support more frequently on our Official Monk site then what we have been seeing.

I'm not sure how it is for other classes maybe it's better for them or maybe it's the same.  My current impression though we seem to be more of an annoyance then an actual concern.  QTM could make all the noise in the world but if that just falls on indiffernt ears then its the same as all of us crying on these forums.  Some quick developer posts after patchs with monk fix's would be nice community building.

Just my 2 cents.

Quinn,

I love the idea of stances as they help give each monk style a particular subset of flavor.
As monks of the 3 schools we will all be called apon to off-tank, DPS and save our skins.
We will approach these 3 aspects differently based on our style and some will excel in each of the 3 subcomponents then the others.

Currently my understanding is:
Dragon = Dps
Harmonious = Dps/off-tank/debuff - a jack of all trades but a master of none.
Drunken = Off-tank

As a Dragon I have a stance to off-tank but limited abilities to help augement that stance - so I can off tank but will not do it as well as my Harmonious nor Drunken brethren.  Carry that thought process forward for the other aspects of our roles and that should help develop the stances.

My wish list after our stances have been fixed/tuned is that the developers add more ability to the individual stances as we get upgrades to those stances.  Currently it seems that the abilities remain the same from the lower tier stance but just get buffed going into the next tier, thats beneficial but I would like to see new elements added into the next tier stance.  This would allow the developers to add more flavor to each of the 3 styles without overloading us with more hotbar buttons.  I would also like to see upgrades to our stances occur in shorter level spans, currently I think t2 stance is gained at lvl 30, thats 15 levels before we see an upgrade.  A mob i faced at lvl 15 is vastly different then what I am going to face at lvl 29. 

A Possible stance achivement curve could be t1=lvl 15, t2=lvl 25, t3=lvl 35, t4=lvl 45 and t5 which would be mastery tier at lvl 50.  This would allow appropriate additions to our power base but in closer intervals and more tuned to what we are going to encounter at those level ranges.

Just some thoughts for the future.

KageKiri

Quinn - Speaking for only Dragons as that is what my toon is we are really more in dire straits then a "wish list".
We have had several patchs go in with very little monk tuning especially after we got hit with the nerf bat.
Dragon stances have been broke since release if not even prior to that in beta.
This recent patch with the increase to secrets which is nice and we are all enjoying actually invalidated one of our stances.
Storm Dragon was weaker then Secrects pre-patch now its a no brainer.
Dragon Stance has never worked so that leaves us with
Stone Dragon!  Woot for us!  Stone Dragon is a situational stance used for those times we need to off-tank or if we need to mitigate a little extra damage.

So in true game play that leaves Dragons with one viable stance, Whats Up with That!  We are not asking for what we would like to see as enhancements, we are asking to fix that which is broken.  Enhancements = wish list, Broken = priority fix!

For the last patchs we have seen all the other classes receive large strides in their tuning - It really is our turn.  One of the key elements is our stances especially the ones that are broken.  Seems strange that we get buffs to abilities that are working rather then fixing those items that are flat broken.  It would seem more logical to fix that which is broken first and then buff and tune from there.

You seem to have a pulse on the issues with the stances across all 3 flavors of monk, you play a harmonious and have stated that you believe harmonious are currently the most complete, I'm hoping that your influence with getting harmonious current could maybe also grace us Dragons and Drunks.

I suggest that Iron Hand be made a passive buff that is always up and costs no Jin.
It scales as it does now gaining in power as one levels, so you always have that extra dps - just because you are a MONK.  This solves part of the dps issue, the whole clickable buff thing and one less thing to micro manage.

Why?
All monks get Iron Hand - its reflective of the training we received for being a monk.  You develop your Iron Hand over years of conditioning and training you either have it or you don't, it has very little to do with Jin empowerment, that would be for techniques more aking to Ashen Hand.

Secrets are empowered by Jin and can remain as is or at least increase the duration for additional Jin cost.
Increase secrets to the 1min timer of Iron hand and tack on the Iron Hands jin cost to the current cost of the secrets.
This gives us essentially the same dps we have today but removes some of the mirco management that we currently have to deal with.

Zeb,

If you have the Aum then sit down and fire it off, you will need to do this each time to learn each dragonskill you qualifiy for.  When you do the Aum and it reports that there is nothing more to learn then you have learned all your current skills up to your current level.

Six Dragons Strike and feet of the fire Dragon should be found in either your adventure abilities or general.  You will need to pull them down to your hotbars to use them.

Hope this helps.

Zebitz,

You should have at least one Aum skill.
If you don't you will need to go see the dragonmaster guy and see if you missed it while training with him.
If you do have it then your in good shape.

Sit down and meditate until you build 6 jin then hit that Aum - it will teach you any DragonStyle skills you qualify for at your level.  This is how we learn our DragonStyle skills and at 22 you should have the two you listed.  You are a stud for hitting 22 without your dragonskills but I do recommend them as they are a large part of our Dragon DPS.

KageKiri

I would like to add to this conversation.

I play a DE Dragon style Monk, i'm currently lvl 19 so that should give you a base of reference of what my experience is.

I think the monk class has a lot of potential and the devs did a good job with the initial implementation of the class, key word being Initial.  The three subclasses of Monk shows some depth and creativity that is just touching the surface of what the martial arts world has to offer.

The devs need to regroup and and look at the monk as being the MASTER of the MARTIAL ARTS world, this includes their brethren the disciples - though the dicsiples are focused more on the healing arts and monks on destructive arts.

The three subclasses of the monk should be able to produce the same dps, be it from out right damage - ie. my fist smashes nose technique - or a combination of weakness + exploit attack - ie. I evade your attack apply sweeping leg technique which breaks your balance and your stunned for a few secs so my weaker fist attacks can land unanswered. Same DPS just achieved differently.  These differences can also give variation, like harmonius can stun more as the need too so they can get off their dps attacks exploit, this is an advantage in group play as other players in the group can take advantage of this.  IN END GAME - their should really be no difference between the 3 subclasses when it comes to DPS, they may approach DPS differently but the end result will be the same.

Let me give an example: A Tae Kwon Do master engages a duel with an Akido master.  Both equal level on all accounts.  The situation can play out as such - Tae Kwon Do master does jump spinning kick with a twist to the head technique, Akido master is to slow and gets slammed in the head and drops - end of duel.
Same scenario - Tae Kwon Do master does jump spinning kick with a twist to the head technique, Akido master pulls off an evade and then applies a redirection throw slamming the Tae Kwon Do master on his head - end of duel.
As you can see - both masters of completely different styles have the potential to apply same dps - ie. a busted head.  They just approach it differently.

Weapons vs. Empty Hand : OK - this is a tough cookie to crack in game mechanics.  Monks can be devastating with both empty hand and with weapons. 
A possible solution is to make monks empty hand dps equivalent to like level weapons.  I think that is supposed to be the case now, not sure if we are there.
What will make weapons attractive to monks is the additional stat bonuses that monks will gain from using weapons.  If my empty hand is the same dps as my knuckles but my knuckles give + to crit and +10 strength then my knuckles actually out dps my hands.  Clearly my knuckles are the weapon of choice, but lets say I die and didn’t bind my knuckles at least my empty hands can fill the bill until I reclaim my corpse.  Other classes don’t have this advantage, Woot for Monks, a + for us, unless you’re a caster then the dps debate really doesn’t matter.
Something nice is to maybe give monks who want to stay empty hand a little love, like giving 1 Jin generation for every other autoattack (white dmg) hit.  Now the monk has options, empty hand is nice in dps and Jin generation, but these knuckles give great crit and additional stats – the Monk now has the FREEDOM to make a choice and not feel totally gimped either way.  It’s about the Freedom Baby, Yeah!

Another suggestion – stances should have more meaning and become more powerful as one levels.

Stances should also give weapon bonuses to particular weapons, ie. Dragon stances give + bonuses for using knuckles and claws, Harm gets bonuses for using marital swords, Drunken gets bonuses for using hand wraps, etc… These should be listed in the description of the stances with a forward view of what’s to come.

I will post additional suggestions as I get time and review responses.

Heratik - I train in Kajukenbo - Hawaiian Lua - Wing Tsun - Cabales Serrada Escrima and Ernesto Presas Kombatan.
Been in the arts for many years.

Muay Thai and Brazilian JuiJitsu are nice complementing arts keep up with them.  If you get a chance try to work some Phillipino Arts to get weapons training or if you can find it the more Ancient form of Muay Thai which includes weapons training.

Hello fellow brothers and sisters in hands/feet.

Big Shot out to Kaji for building us a temple were the real warriors can come to hang out.

About me:
Adult Casual gamer
WoW 2 lvl 60s with guild and raid exp.  Left WoW when I started playing VG Open Beta.
Do martial arts in RL so playing a monk in a solid game is a wish come true.

Kagekiri (japanese for shadowmyst) is a Dark Elf monk on Gulgethor where I team with a RL buddy of mine.
Doing a fair amount of diplomacy.
Crafting - artificer with plans to go mineralogy.

Look forward to chatting and sharing with everyone in the temple.