Ah interesting, i presume monks are getting a massive ranged dps increase then (600% at least)

I really don't trust the devs intentions as to what is "equal",
let's take ranger for instance; melee hits very similar to monk/rogue, ranged hits essentially the same in most cases (ability to go either melee or ranged depending on the situation and not lose any significant amount of dps).
Can tank in a tricky situation, can heal in a tricky situation.
GOOD group buffs.
Stupidly overpowered for soloing/mass kiting

Monk; nice melee dps, joke ranged dps (might as well not have a monk if everyone except tank needs to be ranged)
Can tank in a tricky situation, can't heal except small self one on massive cooldown
NO group buffs of any kind (oh let's not forget jin surge - lmao)
In the bottom 3 classes at soloing (warrior/rogue/monk?)

Bottom line - nerfing our dps makes us useless to raid, except stance removal...oh! ranger can do that a lot better too
Time to reroll to a more "equal" class? 

WTF! If anything they could stop refresh haste stacking.
In raids the abilites are doing nice dmg, but solo they're really unremarkable.
God forbid that a class that adds nothing to the group in terms of buffs and group dps increasers, and one of the worst soloers in the game....should have a decent dps rate.

I can see it now, group 4's bursting full of monk and just swapped in for the odd split, why have a monk when you can have a ranger that does equal dps and brings much more to the group, also can solo 10 x 4dots at once if needed.

You'd say these shoes are better than the monk class shoes?

Also which 5 (or 7) from the class set would you wear and which slots would you have for others?

Noone doubts that disciples are excellent and the best endurance healers,
I think fuj meant that disc adds the least to the group in terms of dps/stability.
One group with a disc as the only healer can be harsh at time, the same group with a cleric healer would have roughly 30%+ more dps, 1k more hp, 7% mit etc.

I have a disc and cleric both lvl 50, 95% of cases the group is better with a cleric.
Sure disc can heal longer, but it's very rare that my cleric will go oom too, and for stuff like Fungal Abom...disc or cleric couldnt single heal it anyway

The reason noone uses that is very simple: It's crap

"Damage per second" is essentially meaningless since auto-attack is a very minor part of our dmg.
ONLY take into account the line: "Damage 189 - 284" and then the various stats/mods on the weapon.

Keep in mind that dmg rating is a %, and this % is applied AFTER all buffs.
I mean that something is worse solo, can scale up to in fact be better with raid buffs.

Yea likewise tanks would need:
65 / 0.8129 = 79.96% mit to be capped for Raiding

http://vg.curse.com/database/items/details/1209058/
So i examined the item tonight "Flawless Pariah's Jagged Tunic of the Marked" which has 177 crit chance on a few alts

Vs lvl 47 = 5.88%
Vs lvl 49 = 5.13%
Vs lvl 50 = 4.78%

From a simple equation, comparing the vs 50 and the vs 47, you can get a constant number to be used for extrapolation
4.78 / 5.88 = 0.8129                 (you also get this if you compare vs50 to vs49 and cube it - proof the equation is linear)

So if we put this number back in we can work out what the % crit is vs a lvl 53:
4.78 * 0.8129 = 3.89
Therefore the 177 crit chance is :-

Vs lvl 53 = 3.89%

---------------

So...assuming the crit chance of most abilities can never exceed 40%
for APW (level 53s):-
40 / 0.8129 = 49.21%

You need a total of 49% crit (vs lvl 50) to be capped for Raiding

I have some alts, one is 47, one is 49, i'll see if i can work out the formula, from comparing rating on them, to my lvl 50, and then extrapolting up to 53.
I just hope the formula is linear and not quadratic, it's a long time since i did maths

On the other hand it might be the same as people on tank forums have already worked out - while 65% mit is the cap vs own lvl, you need 79.5% to be capped for APW.

Assuming it works the same way: 79.5/65 = 1.22

So you would divide everything by 1.22, for instance Tiger stance (30%crit):

30 / 1.22 = 24.6% crit (vs lvl 53)

And so...the big question...
If you aim for 40% crit, you only end up with ~33% in APW

By my calculations you need 48.8% crit for APW.

Note: these are total speculations and guesses right now

The way i look at it, is that it lets us monks be lazy.
I find it really useful in Apw for positioning myself, i don't have the best pc and sometimes the fps gets a bit low and positioning behind or generally moving mid fight can get bad and/or waste time.
With storm stride in a macro with Crescent Kick 1 click and i am positioned perfectly, can warp over to debuff adds and so in a flash too. One of my most used abilites.

@ Fujitsu - thanks for help 

@Gatsuh - Today's patch notes: GENERAL
- Adventuring and crafting assigner NPCs will now allow you to refund your attribute points

Ok cool,
one other thing i was wondering about was secret of flame/ice crits.

Does harmonious tiger stance affect them too?
Seems like it would have a huge affect on them if so.
80% of gear is just "melee crit" so harmonious would be doing loads more damage from secrets than any other form right?

For instance a drunken monk unbuffed would be 5-10% spell crit, harmonious 35-40%

 

I must admit i'm still not convinced by this 40% crit cap.

Are you sure that it isn't "40% cap from gear" and stance/buffs work separately/stack?
I just counted up all my gear/dex/stance and it came to a total of 82% crit unbuffed.
That means in tiger or crane stance i have the exact same crit chance and there is no point using the tiger stance.

However then i notice this: In tiger stance, crescent kick & ashen hand are essentially guaranteed auto-crits, not once ever have they failed to crit (except for misses), in crane stance they do fail albeit not very often but still they do.
Plz don't say i am talking SNARF or it is a placebo or something - try it yourself.

Also the stance is 30% crit which i assume means vs lvl 50?
So against the lvl 53s in APW it would scale down to what..something like 20-25%?

Not sure exactly of the numbers...but due to scaling wouldn't that mean you actually need closer to 50% crit to have the cap vs lvl 53?

Maybe i have got something wrong - Just some thoughts anyway 

By "crit gear" do you mean gear that gives you more dps? If so then cavalier's is the way to go + pain crystal

If you are planning on raiding, and find a balanced and good guild, maybe get pariah's instead -
i have broken 1100 str on my orc, 200 over the cap
Unbuffed i have 610 str, so i would estimate around 450 or so is fine to reach the cap. However, with that much you will be much weaker in normal single group situations and certainly duoing and soloing

Decide what is best for you

(Just a point of interest - who tanks when you are duoing, you or the cleric? thx)

Posted on it, nothing dramatic or over the top, hope someone important reads it